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Coolant loss
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53266		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  lebomas [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Coolant loss
I have looked over the forum and if this problem has been covered I apologize. If it has please point me in the right direction.

I am a diesel repair shop owner of 20 years and a diesel tech for 30. So this is where I am coming from for my question.

Do these engines have leaking combustion issuess? I had an 05 purchased with 10,000 miles that now has 127,000. Once or twice a year since I got it I had to add coolant and have never seen any evidence of an outside leak. Recently it has increased with frequentcy and just last week my wife described what sounded like hydrodynamic lock occuring. When I went to the site it started fine but was slightly low enough to trigger the low coolant light. In refilling the tank with the engine running I noticed a heavy stream of bubbles in the tank coming from the bleed line entering the bottom of the tank. The line is a 3/8 line originating at the radiator. The bubbles stopped when the tank was capped but it did build approx 8psi fairly quickly when checked.
Normally I would associate these bubbles with the compression bubbles you get doing a bubble test with a bottle on the end of the overflow line. The odd thing is it does not over heat at all. In fact I put 600 miles on it this past weekend 20 of them pulling a 7200# boat and trailer to the ramp. On Monday morning it started normally and made it approx a half mile, just enough to heat the exhaust and start burning the coolant that had apparently accumulated there. I pulled over and kept goosing the the throttle and eventually, 45 seconds, the white smoke subsided. The smoke screen was enough that the whole car was enveloped for a bit. After that I checked the coolant and kept an eye on it and headed home 250 miles and made it just fine.

My question is there anywhere else coolant can enter the exhaust system? A water jacketed turbo housing perhaps?

I might also mention that the transmission upshifts way to early lately and resisits downshift normally. I assume that the manifold pressure could be running a bit higher because of that but am not sure.

If any one has had an issue like this one please let me know.

Thanks

Update, twice last night after setting for approx 10 minutes the engine appeared to be hydro locked on me, both times after bumping the starter a couple of times and letting is sit it finally spun over and started. Neither time was there any white smoke but water did drip from the exhaust.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
There has been one case as I recall that had reoccuring glow plug problems do to coolant leaking from a crack in the head I believe was the outcome. There is also the EGR cooler and it could let coolant in too. I assume you know these engines are a wet sleeve type but there are not too many that post here with your mileage. A compression check might be your next step. You could bypass the coolant hoses to the egr cooler to eliminate that. Does your engine oil have any signs of coolant?

Joe
Author:  lebomas [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
Joe Romas wrote:
Does your engine oil have any signs of coolant?

Joe


No not yet and I thought that with the hydro lock going on it would be leaking past the rings and getting in that way and would show up. But no luck there. I am going to dig out my old engine block compression tester to see if it is acutally exhaust in the coolant. In the cummins, cat and detroits we work on they would be running hot blowing alot of coolant and a black cake would be forming on the radiator cap but none of this is happening.
Author:  CRDMiller [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
I would immediately sample the oil and have it analyzed.

If at any time, there were coolant in a cylinder, it will show up in your oil. An analysis and shipping is less than 30 bucks, you should have already done this, the first time you lost coolant and did not find it.

Your description of "hydro lock" and your account of having it not start, are very disturbing.

If your oil analysis shows up with out coolant in your oil, then you have a cracked head, or a damaged head gasket.
If it shows up with coolant contamination i would suspect cavitation erosion or a cyl liner seal leaking. It is also still possible that you have a cracked head or a damaged head gasket, allowing coolant to be sucked from a head/block coolant jacket passage, around the top seal formed between the cyl liner protrusion lip and the head gasket/head.
Author:  onthehunt [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
Quote:
Do these engines have leaking combustion issues?


No, but you obviously do.

I think you should keep driving it until it blows up and you'll know where the leak was. Where is your shop located???
Author:  grnjeepCRD [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
So are there any updates on you problem. I seem to be having the same exact issues.
1. Hard stumbling start after sitting more than a couple hours.
2. Vanishing engine coolant (no leaks on the ground, have to add some almost weekly)
3. Puffy white smoke for about the first 3 minutes of driving in the morning.
4. Lost a glow plug on cylinder 1 about the same time other symptoms started.

Another symptom on top of this I am having, is excessive black smoke at WOT near max RPM.

If anyone has some other ideas to test and diagnose a likely issue I would love to hear them. Because the the likely causes in my head are not promising.

Any and all thoughts about my jeep are appreciated.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
Hmmm.
Lets look at some easy solutions before you get too concerned.

Quote:
1. Hard stumbling start after sitting more than a couple hours.

Have your battery tested. Sounds like it might be on its last legs.

Quote:
2. Vanishing engine coolant (no leaks on the ground, have to add some almost weekly)

A common problem with lots of different vehicles. On the CRD, check the coolant lines that run into
and out of the EGR valve.

Quote:
3. Puffy white smoke for about the first 3 minutes of driving in the morning.
4. Lost a glow plug on cylinder 1 about the same time other symptoms started.

These two are related. You say #1 glow plug has already been replaced?
Some CRDs got their glow plug harnesses installed backward. Try replacing the #4 glow plug to
see if that fixes it.

Quote:
Another symptom on top of this I am having, is excessive black smoke at WOT near max RPM.

OMG! How fast are you driving? :shock:
This is kinda like when you go to see your Doctor and tell your Dr. that your arm hurts when you
contort it in some strange way. Then your Dr. tells you not do that anymore. :lol:
Honestly, this condition is of no surprise, but just because this engine CAN run over 4000 rpm
DOES NOT mean you should.
Your CRD is not a race car. You will earn no points for beating another car off the line or for when
you pass trucks on the freeway at 95 mph. :lol:

Seriously, keep your rpm's reasonably low and you will be rewarded with an engine that will last
half-a-million miles.
Author:  CATCRD [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
grnjeepCRD wrote:
So are there any updates on you problem. I seem to be having the same exact issues.
1. Hard stumbling start after sitting more than a couple hours.
2. Vanishing engine coolant (no leaks on the ground, have to add some almost weekly)
3. Puffy white smoke for about the first 3 minutes of driving in the morning.
4. Lost a glow plug on cylinder 1 about the same time other symptoms started.

Another symptom on top of this I am having, is excessive black smoke at WOT near max RPM.

If anyone has some other ideas to test and diagnose a likely issue I would love to hear them. Because the the likely causes in my head are not promising.

Any and all thoughts about my jeep are appreciated.


I am much more pessimistic about your engine. All 4 of those things can be explained by coolant in the cylinder. I think you have a leaking head gasket. You should pull an engine oil sample and have it analyzed, that will tell you if you have much coolant in your oil and you can then start tearing into the cylinder head.
Author:  grnjeepCRD [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
Thanks for the replies guys I do appreciate it. I too do believe that it is coolant leaking into the cylinder. When I changed my oil though I saw no signs of coolant in there and I did not notice a increase in my oil amount. It goes to the stealership (unfortunatly the extended warranty only works there) on wednesday, so pray for my little jeep.
Author:  flash7210 [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
If you have compression leaking into the water jacket, you should see lots of bubbles coming
up into the radiator. However, might be kinda difficult to see with our coolant reservoir.
Author:  NJCRD [ Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
I'm having an issue with coolant loss as well. About once a month the low coolant light comes on and I have to add a smidge to my reservoir. There are no leaks on the ground and the oil doesn't have that milky look to it. I do have an SEGR.
Since the EGR is useless, if and how do I by bass this little bugger?
Are there any issues in doing so?
I plan on getting the HOT Tune but they still have some EGR function :ALONE:
Any Ideas?
Author:  naturist [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Coolant loss
at about 80K miles, mine started leaking a little coolant, too. Finally got bad enough to track down at about 100K. Turned out to be the coolant lines that go to/from the EGR up under the fuel filter. Evidently they get hot on the ends at the EGR. Might give them a check.
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