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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:34 pm 
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flman wrote:
I agree, lots of good info, but there should be a warning, and I do not agree that the EHM does all those wonderful things that it is claimed to do, I would run any one of you with my dirty old MAP any day, I only took mine out once, and I will not take it out again unless it fails or does any of those terrible things that is claimed to happen with out the EHM. But since all the Map really does is compare RPM to temperature, I kind of doubt a little oil is going to affect it, and the liquid coating might actually give it better temperature transfer then dry?


Well, the one "real" thing I have done since purchasing my Jeep was to clean the MAP. It's not a case of it being coated with a little bit of oil. Mine was caked solid. And there is absolutely NO question whatsoever that my Jeep's behavior changed once the MAP had been cleaned. My MPG actually went down, but that's because it's so much more fun to step on the accelerator now (no question about increased power).



flman wrote:
BTW, never had this problem?
Quote:
When the sensor is dirty the CRD will experience decreased fuel economy, decreased power, increased turbo lag, worse drivability, hesitation etc.
:roll:


Roll your eyes all you want, but I noticed significant change once I cleaned my MAP. :)

I have ordered and received my ProVent, and will be installing it soon (after reading all the threads, I believe it's a much better solution than the EHM). I also plan on doing quite a few more of the things suggested on Sam's Noob list (replace Turbo Inlet Hose, replace CCV hoses, upgraded Hayden fan clutch which I've already received, remove exhaust choke point, etc.).

I do think it's important that people be reminded of the dangers that can come from screwing around under the hood though, so thanks for that! :wink:

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05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:03 pm 
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kidjedi wrote:
Roll your eyes all you want, but I noticed significant change once I cleaned my MAP. :)

I have ordered and received my ProVent, and will be installing it soon (after reading all the threads, I believe it's a much better solution than the EHM). I also plan on doing quite a few more of the things suggested on Sam's Noob list (replace Turbo Inlet Hose, replace CCV hoses, upgraded Hayden fan clutch which I've already received, remove exhaust choke point, etc.).

I do think it's important that people be reminded of the dangers that can come from screwing around under the hood though, so thanks for that! :wink:


Yeah lots of good things you can do, but like I said more then once, once the EGR is out of the picture the map will not plug up, CCV or not, besides the oil contains detergent that will wash away the EGR soot that was previously formed in the intake. When I bought a used CRD, the first thing I did was unplug the MAF until I got the GDE tune. You get that tune and you will find all the Noob tricks are pretty much moot.

I agree Provent is a lot better and safer way to go if that is what floats your boat. Good luck with the new rig, I can not imagine parting with mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:18 pm 
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flman wrote:
Yeah lots of good things you can do, but like I said more then once, once the EGR is out of the picture the map will not plug up, CCV or not, besides the oil contains detergent that will wash away the EGR soot that was previously formed in the intake. When I bought a used CRD, the first thing I did was unplug the MAF until I got the GDE tune. You get that tune and you will find all the Noob tricks are pretty much moot.

I agree Provent is a lot better and safer way to go if that is what floats your boat. Good luck with the new rig, I can not imagine parting with mine.


Well, I'm not going to unplug the MAF/EGR because I don't want the CEL, and I'm not going to spend the money on the EcoTune (which I'm really stoked to get) until I know I can afford the Euro TC and install as well. I am REALLY looking forward to the engine tune (and eliminated soot, among many other things), once I can get the cash lined up.

And I still do think if your MAP is caked, cleaning it will make a huge difference. It did for me! So for those who are still running stock, I think cleaning the MAP is a good idea.

Thanks for the good luck. We had our first "real" snow last night since I bought the Jeep. Cars off the road all over the place, but I felt like I was on dry pavement! I freaking LOVE this vehicle! :JEEPIN: Hoping to treat it well and have it for many, many, many years to come.

Best.

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06 CRD Sport (silver), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, DIY cross bars, LT245/75R16, Hayden fan HD clutch, lift pump, ProVent.

05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:01 am 
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kidjedi wrote:

Well, I'm not going to unplug the MAF/EGR because I don't want the CEL, and I'm not going to spend the money on the EcoTune (which I'm really stoked to get) until I know I can afford the Euro TC and install as well. I am REALLY looking forward to the engine tune (and eliminated soot, among many other things), once I can get the cash lined up.

And I still do think if your MAP is caked, cleaning it will make a huge difference. It did for me! So for those who are still running stock, I think cleaning the MAP is a good idea.

Thanks for the good luck. We had our first "real" snow last night since I bought the Jeep. Cars off the road all over the place, but I felt like I was on dry pavement! I freaking LOVE this vehicle! :JEEPIN: Hoping to treat it well and have it for many, many, many years to come.

Best.


Who says you need a new TC for the Eco tune? I had the Hot tune against stock TC and it gave me issues, but never had issues with stock TC and Eco tune?

If you pull the plug, the CEL will go away in 3 start stop cycles when plugged back in, or when you re-flash the ECM. I would be more concerned with the EGR crapping out, then a light on the dash?

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Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:43 pm 
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flman wrote:

Who says you need a new TC for the Eco tune? I had the Hot tune against stock TC and it gave me issues, but never had issues with stock TC and Eco tune?

If you pull the plug, the CEL will go away in 3 start stop cycles when plugged back in, or when you re-flash the ECM. I would be more concerned with the EGR crapping out, then a light on the dash?



x2 on everything he said....

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 Post subject: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Kidjedi, if you go with provent, which I think it's a good idea, don't forget to cap the draining hose, or get a release valve (unless you connect the draining hose under oil level in your oil pan). There can be negative pressure in your provent from the intake (which can suck more air than the ccv lets out), and if oil drain isn't capped/has release valve, it will suck air through the oil drain hose. I'm saying this bc I've done it wrong... Lol, as probably some other people did.

In regards to gde tune, I'd do it as soon as possible. They have an Eco low torque also, made for stock tc. But I'd get the Eco high torque since worse case, you'll feel shudder on low rpm in 4th and 5th, but only if you're under 2000 rpm and step on it hard. Which, if you control yourself, lol, it's not hard to do till you get a better tc. Lots of people here in forum run with stock tc and Eco high torque and haven't had issues. Gde also has an obd programmer for 200, that stores up to 2 tunes and the stock one, in case you didn't know. Till you get the gde, just unplug the maf, it's just a cel that can be reset with an obd scanner (get a cheapo one from eBay that just reads/deletes codes). I know, you're probably like I used to be till I did the maf unplug, couldn't stand a cel light, but really, it's just a darn light... You can start the engine, clear the maf code, then till you restart it again the maf cel won't show, this will also let you observe other codes in case there will be while you're driving your crd. The egr is probably the most stupid thing invented to keep pollution low, at least for diesels. A lot of the Vw tdi guys use provent/ehm with maf unplugged for same reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:54 pm 
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flman wrote:
Who says you need a new TC for the Eco tune? I had the Hot tune against stock TC and it gave me issues, but never had issues with stock TC and Eco tune?

If you pull the plug, the CEL will go away in 3 start stop cycles when plugged back in, or when you re-flash the ECM. I would be more concerned with the EGR crapping out, then a light on the dash?


I'm going to get the "full torque" Ecotune, which everybody, including Keith at GDE, says require either the Euro TC or the Suncoast within a year of install. Maybe I'll end up installing the tune before the TC upgrade, but I really don't want to run the risk of damage.

I may end up pulling the plug, but I'm going to at least wait till I'm done with the emissions test. Some people say a cheap obd scanner is needed to reset the CEL, but I assume what you're saying (a few start/stop cycles) will really also reset the CEL? Biggest issue would be if the vehicle threw a different code that I wouldn't see because the CEL is already on.

Thanks for all the info.

Thanks, thermorex, for your response as well! Lots of good info. By the way, I plan on using the "coke bottle catch" method, so my ProVent oil drain line will still be sealed to keep the system under negative pressure (the negative pressure is why I decided to go ProVent instead of just EHM).

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05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:20 pm 
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kidjedi wrote:
I may end up pulling the plug, but I'm going to at least wait till I'm done with the emissions test. Some people say a cheap obd scanner is needed to reset the CEL, but I assume what you're saying (a few start/stop cycles) will really also reset the CEL? Biggest issue would be if the vehicle threw a different code that I wouldn't see because the CEL is already on.

Thanks for all the info.

Thanks, thermorex, for your response as well! Lots of good info. By the way, I plan on using the "coke bottle catch" method, so my ProVent oil drain line will still be sealed to keep the system under negative pressure (the negative pressure is why I decided to go ProVent instead of just EHM).


I agree, get the emissions test, then pull the plug. You do not want something stored in the non volatile memory at the inspection. And yes, I pulled mine, set a code, plugged it back in. After a couple of rides the CEL went out. BTW what kind of test do you get? We just get the OBD test in NY.

Also, my Sport does not even have a functioning CEL, so I would never know it had a code either way?

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:29 pm 
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flman wrote:
BTW what kind of test do you get? We just get the OBD test in NY.


An incredibly annoying one! :lol: Here's where I've been posting on the issue: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62568

They put your vehicle on a dynamometer and hook the exhaust up to a machine to do an opacity test. They also do a snap test (redline the vehicle three times while checking the exhaust). There are only TWO machines in the entire state that can do AWD diesel (or Liberty CRD's with their particular traction system), but now that they have those two, you can't get a waiver. Therefore you have to either drive to south Denver or Ft. Collins. Not only that, but it's $100 a year (vs. $25 for gassers) and you have to do it EVERY year (vs. every two for gassers). Super lame.

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05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:00 pm 
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kidjedi wrote:

Thanks, thermorex, for your response as well! Lots of good info. By the way, I plan on using the "coke bottle catch" method, so my ProVent oil drain line will still be sealed to keep the system under negative pressure (the negative pressure is why I decided to go ProVent instead of just EHM).


I finally found a solution for mine. I used a few brass fittings and a drain valve from an air compressor (all from Lowe's). My hose is the storage point (clean PVC so I can see when it's getting full), and I can easily twist the drain with my fingers to drain. It's been drip free for a few weeks now. I have those hose sitting down by the cross member right by the oil filter, took me a while to find a set up I like.

Good luck with yours!

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:18 pm 
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kidjedi wrote:
flman wrote:
BTW what kind of test do you get? We just get the OBD test in NY.


An incredibly annoying one! :lol: Here's where I've been posting on the issue: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62568

They put your vehicle on a dynamometer and hook the exhaust up to a machine to do an opacity test. They also do a snap test (redline the vehicle three times while checking the exhaust). There are only TWO machines in the entire state that can do AWD diesel (or Liberty CRD's with their particular traction system), but now that they have those two, you can't get a waiver. Therefore you have to either drive to south Denver or Ft. Collins. Not only that, but it's $100 a year (vs. $25 for gassers) and you have to do it EVERY year (vs. every two for gassers). Super lame.


Here is a gasser for you :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PsM-9LLnoQ&feature=youtu.be

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Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Shouldve posted this earlier, but was to busy trying to diagnose my problems. Anyhow, I'm waiting for parts now and have time to post it! Great info here! Thanks



I cant figure out how to post the noob image here, because I'm on my tablet.


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:04 am 
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Hot Stuff wrote:
Shouldve posted this earlier, but was to busy trying to diagnose my problems. Anyhow, I'm waiting for parts now and have time to post it! Great info here! Thanks



I cant figure out how to post the noob image here, because I'm on my tablet.


You can borrow mine if you like? :ROTFL:

No EHM! No Provent! No MAP Problems!

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:27 pm 
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x3!

Thanks Sam ... this helped me so much.

And will definitely continue to help.

Sarma.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:06 am 
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I am sorry, but as a newbie, I am all take and no give, but as soon as I have something to contribute I will, Thanks Sam and all for this guide, I am trying to learn fast.So far I have changed the Oil and filter, Air filter and Fuel filter, next I have been trying to identify all the parts mentioned under the bonnet, Ok with some but my CRD is a UK model, 2003 Cherokee Extreme Sport 2.8 Diesel. I have found the MAP Sensor, CCV/EHM and the Fuel filter head as described. Now the problems,
The ORM, The only unit I can find that might be the ORM, is a unit behind the Airfilter, its ob-longish in shape, has two thin,ish tubes coming out of the top, a 1.5 inch tube out of the bottom with a bubble at the end of the tube, with a round paper filter in it. On the top lid, the center tube is marked VAC and the one to the side of it is marked OUT, a No. round the lid is A000-545-04-27, Would any one know if this is the ORM on this model and would I block it off as per the guild. cannot find a unit at all that looks like a FCV, so am not sure if I have one. When I have located all the parts in this model I will take photos and post. Any help now would be much appreciated as I am getting very poor fuel consumption and feel all this info when applied to my CRD can only help.
Thanks All


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:41 am 
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Hi all, I am sorry but its me again, Just re-read Sam,s CRD Noob Guild again and got lost, Early in the guild it talks about a MAP Sensor (it looks like an electrical unit) further in the guild it mentions MAP "from the intake track of a CRD" which looks like a metal plate with a unit sticking out from it, (one picture clean the other showing the same unit all clogged up). This is where age shows, is this part of the same unit or is there two of them and how would I find the latter. I would just love to do this work myself so I can start to learn something about this motor.
Please dont give up on me yet, you never know it just might help somebody else as well.
Thanks All,


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:27 am 
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Hi Its me, I may have been a little premature with my last post, I have been reading the 2.5/2.8 Export diesel manual, as recommended by Sam and have found the EGR on my 2003 2.8 Cherokee. The unit I explained in my last post is the EGR Solenoid, The pipe coming out of the center of the top (marked VAC) is the EGR Solenoid Vacuum Supply Line and the one to the side of it (marked OUT) is the Vacuum Line to EGR Valve.
It also says the under
OPERATION
The EGR system reduces oxides of nitrogen (NOx) in engine exhaust. Formation of NOx increases proportionally with combustion temperature. To reduce the emission of these oxides, the cylinder temperature must be lowered. The system allows a predetermined amount of hot exhaust gas to recirculate and dilute the incoming charge air. The diluted air mixture reduces peak flame temperature during combustion.
It would seem to me, that if I block off the EGR I will increase the Temperature in the combustion chamber, am I right and is this safe to do.
I would like to increase performance and reduce fuel consumption, but am naturally concerned about damaging the engine.
Any advise would be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Engines operated fine for decades before government mandated EGR without exceeding safe temperatures. The quote in your post is referring to localized temperatures on the molecular scale. It doesn't mean that your engine will overheat.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:14 am 
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Thanks catcrd, that has put my mind at rest,
So far, cannot find a unit at all that looks like a FCV, I might not have one so will keep looking and reading.
Have Cleaned the MAP, found it dirty (not to bad) but very wet, I had just been for a run to pick up cleaning liquid, ??? Should it be WET at all???, if not WHAT could be causing it???
Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks to All


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:25 pm 
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WillBill wrote:
Thanks catcrd, that has put my mind at rest,
So far, cannot find a unit at all that looks like a FCV, I might not have one so will keep looking and reading.
Have Cleaned the MAP, found it dirty (not to bad) but very wet, I had just been for a run to pick up cleaning liquid, ??? Should it be WET at all???, if not WHAT could be causing it???
Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks to All


2002-2004 did not have the FVC in the intake.

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