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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
The Torque converter is one of very few components where we are somewhat "spoiled for choice", from the top shelf choice "Suncoast" to random "bargain basement" offerings on EBAy and other such places.

Study up, ask your questions, make your best choice, and let us know the direction you picked, and how it works out.

You might also want to move that future conversation to it's own thread :arrow:

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

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head
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rockers
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YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:43 pm 
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jeepmichelle1 wrote:
thank you muchly! yep this is literally exactly what is going on. And you got the RPM spot on, too. It only happens when accelerating up a steep hill AND (i forgot) when accelerating towing a heavy load.
I am looking into a new torque converter asap. appreciate the well thought out explanation.
Michelle :jester:

Whatever torque converter you ultimately decide on going with, plan on having the front pump assembly replaced with an updated unit and a TransGo Kit installed while you have the transmission outl.
Doing these two things may make the difference between your new torque converter performing satisfactorily with no shudder (slippage) or still having issues under load when the transmission is in 5th gear lockup.
:SOMBRERO:

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2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:04 pm 
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Does anyone have a good checklist of what to look for before buying a used CRD? This thread has awesome info in it and some items like when the last filter change, timing belt change, etc. were completed is a good start. What about red flags to look out for that are more specific to these diesels and might go unnoticed to us noobs?


Tomorrow evening I'm going to look at a 2006 CRD with 122k miles, a one-owner that looks bone stock. I don't know yet if the timing belt was changed, 13 years and 122k miles you'd certainly hope so but you never know.

Is it worth checking for blow-by at the oil fill on a stock CRD, or will the EGR and similar give a false positive? I passed on a CRD a couple years ago that seemed to drive really well but looked to have a decent amount of blow-by, I'm wondering now if that really was just the emissions controls doing their "job".

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:51 pm 
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tsully wrote:
Does anyone have a good checklist of what to look for before buying a used CRD? This thread has awesome info in it and some items like when the last filter change, timing belt change, etc. were completed is a good start. What about red flags to look out for that are more specific to these diesels and might go unnoticed to us noobs?


Not necessarily red flags (depending on how much you want to both immediately and in the longer term spend on maintenance after purchase), but also check the following:

  • Serpentine belt condition
  • Revised fuel filter head is installed
  • Thermostat isn't weak or failing
  • Fan clutch isn't weak or failing
  • PCV puck isn't puking oil all over the top of the engine
  • Water pump and tensioners were done at the same time as the timing belt
  • Rear main seal isn't leaking
  • Head gasket isn't leaking

Also, check for the presence of a recall sticker (most likely on the upper radiator support) detailing if the vehicle had the torque converter recall performed. If you see 'F37' written on it, at some point it was detuned as part of that recall. This isn't a dealbreaker, but it means that you'll need to figure out if the torque converter was ever upgraded to the European or an aftermarket unit before doing any performance tunes, etc.

If you can, bring an OBD-II code reader and check for anything that may be stored but isn't throwing a CEL.

There are things I've probably forgotten that someone else can add.

Quote:
Tomorrow evening I'm going to look at a 2006 CRD with 122k miles, a one-owner that looks bone stock. I don't know yet if the timing belt was changed, 13 years and 122k miles you'd certainly hope so but you never know.


Ask to see all the bills. Hopefully the owner has saved them.

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225/75R16 Goodyear TrailRunner ATs
OME 1.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
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Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:40 pm 
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tsully wrote:
Does anyone have a good checklist of what to look for before buying a used CRD? This thread has awesome info in it and some items like when the last filter change, timing belt change, etc. were completed is a good start. What about red flags to look out for that are more specific to these diesels and might go unnoticed to us noobs?
Tomorrow evening I'm going to look at a 2006 CRD with 122k miles, a one-owner that looks bone stock. I don't know yet if the timing belt was changed, 13 years and 122k miles you'd certainly hope so but you never know.
Is it worth checking for blow-by at the oil fill on a stock CRD, or will the EGR and similar give a false positive? I passed on a CRD a couple years ago that seemed to drive really well but looked to have a decent amount of blow-by, I'm wondering now if that really was just the emissions controls doing their "job".

This may be of help?
From an old post, things to look for and expect down the road:> viewtopic.php?p=904561#p904561

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
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SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:01 am 
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Location: Orange Beach, AL
Thank you both, exactly the kind of info I was hoping for! This is also really helpful when it comes to pricing the CRD, it's a one-owner which is nice to see but if the timing belt needs to be done that bill adds up quick.

I'm expecting to do some work right off the bat on any CRD we might buy, mainly the initial items listed at the beginning of this guide. I'm not too worried about needing to work on suspension or add a cleaning up after the EGR, but for my wallet's sake I'd rather not dive immediately into doing the timing belt or torque converter...

I expect if I started planning for the timing belt I'd end up ordering everything from the water pump and thermostat to new rockers, ARP studs, head gasket, lifters. Same for the torque converter, if I'm pulling the transmission I'm sure I'd find a list of parts to replace while back there!

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
On your Timing belt list you list the head gasket, for when you replace the head bolts with the ARP studs.

There have been head gasket leaks with the stock head bolts, that were stopped by changing out the OEM bolts for studs and torqueing one at a time, so if you have no gasket issues, it isn't technically necessary.

That said, I would probably go the route you list, including the head gasket, and since the head is off, (to do the head gasket,) replace all the exhaust valves at that time as well, as they are (as of lately) understood to fail from fatigue due to repetitive impact in the presence of exhaust heat. Failures have been consistently well over 100K miles, so changing them and the head gasket when you do the timing belt makes sense if you are planning to keep the Jeep long-term. as I also do.

Geordi is the one involved with the metallurgic failure analysis, and can clear up any question details you still have.

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'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:04 am 
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Think I'm going to have to pass on the CRD we went to see last night, but the hunt continues and this info is all extremely helpful.

I did bring along an OBD-ii reader and found 4 codes: P0401, P1252, P0299, and P1263. Best I can tell those break down to the a bad glow plug, bad turbo vane actuator, and a general reminder that the EGR is a terrible system! It does also need struts, but I can say I didn't see any rust issues or oil/coolant leaks. The serpentine belt looked fairly new and I saw wrench marks on the fan nut, but couldn't say for sure if the timing belt had been replaced at 100k.

It is technically a one-owner car, but the current owner is a dealer and has kept it on dealer tags for the last 8 months. He very much appreciates his CRD and isn't too motivated to sell, his bottom line is $6k as that's what keeping it is worth to him. He's put about 16k miles on it since he bought it, don't think it's had an oil change since it was traded in at the last dealership...

For the right price I would have happily taken it off his hands, but $6k felt a little steep to me given what it'd need done pretty soon to catch up on maintenance and preventative.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:33 am 
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tsully wrote:
Think I'm going to have to pass on the CRD we went to see last night, but the hunt continues and this info is all extremely helpful.
I did bring along an OBD-ii reader and found 4 codes: P0401, P1252, P0299, and P1263. Best I can tell those break down to the a bad glow plug, bad turbo vane actuator, and a general reminder that the EGR is a terrible system! It does also need struts, but I can say I didn't see any rust issues or oil/coolant leaks. The serpentine belt looked fairly new and I saw wrench marks on the fan nut, but couldn't say for sure if the timing belt had been replaced at 100k.
It is technically a one-owner car, but the current owner is a dealer and has kept it on dealer tags for the last 8 months. He very much appreciates his CRD and isn't too motivated to sell, his bottom line is $6k as that's what keeping it is worth to him. He's put about 16k miles on it since he bought it, don't think it's had an oil change since it was traded in at the last dealership...
For the right price I would have happily taken it off his hands, but $6k felt a little steep to me given what it'd need done pretty soon to catch up on maintenance and preventative.

Your very best option if you can find one, is to buy one from a member of LOST that has already done all the needed upgrades, deleations, timing belt, etc...
They surface every once in a while on here when a member decides to upgrade to a newer model Jeep or truck.
Even having to spend a little more money for a very good used one will provide you with a lot of piece of mind knowing the history of the vehicle and knowing it is in great shape.
Buying one with an unknown history that needs immediate maintenance attention and all the upgrades prior listed can easily cost around 4k to 5k in parts and that is if you do all the labor yourself.
Ask us how we know! :oops: :cry: :cry: :ROTFL:
Throw labor charges in and those figures can easily double and then some. :banghead:
Good luck on your quest! :juggle:

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
DodgeCummins,5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 10:07 pm 
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I used to have a checklist of things to check but just a couple of things for now. You can check and see if it might have a GDE computer upgrade if RPM rises on startup for a few seconds then settles down it has GDE tune . Roll all the windows up and down all the way. You may find that some don't operate because they have been tied up due to broken window regulator. Also unplug the mass air flow sensor and see if check engine light comes on it may have a custom tune or SEGR mod or if light doesn't come one the check engine light may have been disabled so to check for this do the check for all gauge lights with ignition key and see if check engine light comes on then if it doesn't it may have the light disabled ( I found on that CEL was disabled but bought it anyway after checking for codes). I recommend take a code reader with you and check for codes no matter what. You might also want to look at the fuel filter head to see if it is old style or new style . You might also check the VIN at dealership or maybe online to see if outstanding recalls or service done by chrysler.

It would be a good thing for someone to make a list and then post it as a sticky etc. :ALONE:

We should also probably have moved this to a new thread about buying a used CRD.

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05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Noob question here:

So I have unplugged the MAF (ORM), cleaned the MAP sensor, and plan on getting my intake cleaned out. What are the downsides to not installing an EHM or ProVent kit?


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:05 pm 
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There is some evidence that going the EHM route may risk causing failure of the crankshaft Rear Main Seal.

Provent, if you can afford it, and install it correctly, has no downside, providing you remember to clean the drain line and collector every oil change, and service the internal filter.

Not installing either, (OEM layout) continues to allow oil and contaminant-bearing crankcase gasses to recirculate through the turbo inlet, CAC & hoses, EGR, and intake. Unless your EGR system is blocked off or removed, it will continue to develop asphalt in the intake, and introduce excess carbon into the oil causing excess wear.

If you mechanically disable the EGR, you will no longer get the asphalt effect, and your oil will be cleaner, but you will still get the gassified oil recirculating through the turbo and remaining intake elements.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:09 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
There is some evidence that going the EHM route may risk causing failure of the crankshaft Rear Main Seal.
Provent, if you can afford it, and install it correctly, has no downside, providing you remember to clean the drain line and collector every oil change, and service the internal filter.
Not installing either, (OEM layout) continues to allow oil and contaminant-bearing crankcase gasses to recirculate through the turbo inlet, CAC & hoses, EGR, and intake. Unless your EGR system is blocked off or removed, it will continue to develop asphalt in the intake, and introduce excess carbon into the oil causing excess wear.
If you mechanically disable the EGR, you will no longer get the asphalt effect, and your oil will be cleaner, but you will still get the gassified oil recirculating through the turbo and remaining intake elements.

And oil will certainly collect in the bottom of the CAC (intercooler). Right after I bought mine, I performed a timing belt job on it and found about a 1 pint or more of oil in the bottom of the CAC. That prompted me to install a ProVent filter...
Oil belongs in the engine, not in everything else!

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:04 am 
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What if I simply get the GDE tune instead of using the ORM? Will that suffice or will I still have contaminates?

Basically, I'm trying to avoid installing the EHM/ProVent since I am an amateur mechanically.


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:57 pm 
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dirtbikemike18 wrote:
What if I simply get the GDE tune instead of using the ORM? Will that suffice or will I still have contaminates?

Basically, I'm trying to avoid installing the EHM/ProVent since I am an amateur mechanically.

The gde tunes significantly reduce exhaust gasses going into the intake, but they do not completely disable the egr system. If you are not able to do a complete egr delete or install a block off plate, then a tune is a very good alternative for that purpose. Of course the tune would have several other benefits as well.

A tune does nothing to prevent oily vapors from the crankcase from entering the intake stream and allowing oil to collect in the intercooler and hoses. If you want to avoid that, then install a provent (dont do the ehm, just forget you ever heard of it). If you are unable to install a provent, you should still do a tune, as it will reduce the amount of sooty exhaust gasses that mix with the oily vapor in the intake stream. It's the soot and oil mixing in the intake that makes the harmful sludge.

Bottom line, if you do nothing else, a tune is not a waste.

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Weeks 1&2, Straight Pipe Exhaust
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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:08 pm 
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iakj11 wrote:
dirtbikemike18 wrote:
What if I simply get the GDE tune instead of using the ORM? Will that suffice or will I still have contaminates?

Basically, I'm trying to avoid installing the EHM/ProVent since I am an amateur mechanically.

The gde tunes significantly reduce exhaust gasses going into the intake, but they do not completely disable the egr system. If you are not able to do a complete egr delete or install a block off plate, then a tune is a very good alternative for that purpose. Of course the tune would have several other benefits as well.

A tune does nothing to prevent oily vapors from the crankcase from entering the intake stream and allowing oil to collect in the intercooler and hoses. If you want to avoid that, then install a provent (dont do the ehm, just forget you ever heard of it). If you are unable to install a provent, you should still do a tune, as it will reduce the amount of sooty exhaust gasses that mix with the oily vapor in the intake stream. It's the soot and oil mixing in the intake that makes the harmful sludge.

Bottom line, if you do nothing else, a tune is not a waste.


Sounds good, thank you for explaining.

I just watched a video on installing the ProVent, it actually doesn't seem too difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:30 am 
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Check with SasquatchParts.

They sell a full kit including the provent unit, along with Silicone hoses that won't need periodic replacement like most rubber hoses.

https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/bundle-sasquatchparts-provent-kit-mann-provent-200-oil-separator-jeep-liberty-28l-crd/

This combined with his Silicone turbo intake hose should completely eliminate the need to replace all your hoses when they come apart every other year.

https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/sasquatchparts-silicon-turbocharger-inlet-hose-jeep-liberty-28l-crd/

One-stop shopping from a company with fantastic service, and has engineered several awesome problem-solving solutions for this engine's weaknesses. His stuff (to me) has always arrived quickly, and with every little bracket, bolt, nut, screw, or washer needed to complete the mod.

Yeah, I support the people that support us!

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:31 pm 
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IS there a similar thread for the 3.0?


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:39 am 
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not that I know of You might ask on the Grand Cherokee WK WKII section

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05 Blu LIM, OME GDE Tbo, wk II 245/75/17, KC Lights, bull bar, 195K H TC
05 Blu Lim, Dayton, GDE HT, 255/75/18 , 210K , H TC
06 Bla Lim, GDE Eco, Destination AT 245/75/17, 151K, H TC
06 D Khaki Lim 126K wkII Eur TC
05 D khaki Lim 145k refurbishing
All CRDS: Fumoto, Lift , Fan Shroud mod, fuel head Gen II, SAMCOS,self TB, 2 Mic filt, Hayden


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 Post subject: Re: Sam's CRD Noob Guide:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:35 am 
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2011+ MAP sensor

Hi all, anyone here from euro/aus/sa that does operator maintenance on their 2011+ CRD? The manifold/egr side is different from the noob guide and I cant find the MAP sensor. I’ve cleaned another sensor that looks like the map sensor but its not on the manifold its on the intake pipe.
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