LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Turbo troubles
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54213		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  smokinbubba [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Turbo troubles
Looks like my turbo went south the other night. Ive been getting the dreaded turbo overspeed code and rig goes into limp mode a lot. Like an idiot, I threw a new Mapp in it which did not help :(
Went to my local amsoil dealer to get some new juice and on the way home it went into limp mode. I stopped, reset, and took off this time I wsas going to give this truck a lesson........ got on the loud pedal and it took off like a rocket :BANANA: Then a loud pop and whooshing noise. I must have blown a CAC hose. Pulled over to investigate and gave it a little gas. Much grinding noise comes from the turbo as well as a lot of whooshing sounds.

I checked the codes before the new mapp and I got an overboost and underboost code (or is it overspeed??) either way, you get the picture. On the hook it went and to my regular wrench turner. He wont be able to look at it until later in the week.

I figure we will find a bad compresser wheel that has been rubbing on the turbo housing :(
I really expected the turbo to last more than 72,000 miles

Anybody know what would have caused this failure???

Thanks in advance, OH BTW the site looks great!! havnt been here for a long time, even had to re-register

Bubba
Author:  geordi [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
You may be surprised to find that it was the turbine side that failed... Yours would be the third that I am aware of on this site. Mine was the first (that I know of) and ended up costing me an engine. Hopefully you didn't cause any other damage from lack of lubrication when the turbo died.

How quickly did you shut it off after the loud pop-whoosh?

The turbo is directly connected to the #1 cylinder's oil lines... So when the pressure drops b/c the oil is being let out into the exhaust from a blown turbo, the #1 piston STARVES for lubrication VERY quickly.
Author:  racertracer [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Driving around town and not blowing the crud out every once in while, allowing the carbon to build up where the turbo reaches a point of no return.

We need to excercize the beast, give it the gun every once in a while, you can't hurt this engine. Blow the crap out of the exhaust every so often ... do it enough times and the turbo may come back to life.

Use a vaccum pump, the vanes should move and open freely, if they don't, then keep using the pump or keep driving it with the pedal to the metal untill they do move freely and you can hear the turbo spool.

Good lubrication is key.

This same issue happened to me a while back and it cleared it right up and the suggestions i am sharing with you were given to me by a well respected Jeep Liberty CRD diesel owner and diesel engineer who posts on this board.

smokinbubba, your turbo maybe too far gone to be helped, but this should be a word to the wise for those of you who like to drive your CRD gingerly.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Smokinbubba,

The overboost code is fairly rare and can stem from a few issues. The underboost code is more common and usually associated with an EGR problem or a blown CAC hose. Overboost: The vanes on the turbine may be sticking and preventing them from reaching the full open position (zero vacuum supply), this will cause and overspeed. The EVM (electronic vacuum modulator) may be slow or allowing too much constant vacuum to turbo, thus keeping the vanes in a more closed position.

First, try to get the hose fixed to make sure the turbo is the culprit...sounds like it is if there is a grinding noise. You may also find it beneficial to use an aftermarket turbo if replacement is necessary. We offer a turbo kit using a Garrett generation III unit, which has a higher rotating speed limit, lower inertia, electronic vane actuation and a completely different vane design as compared to the stock KJ.

Of course, if you go with the aftermarket turbo you will also want an aftermarket torque converter to help the KJ put the power to the road without causing shudder.

Good Luck!

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... how/4.page
Author:  smokinbubba [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Geordi, I am not sure that we have the same problem. I have absolutly no smoke out of the tailpipe. I assume yours smoked like a freight train??? Your saying that when the turbo goes, it dumps oil into the exhaust instead of lubing the #1 cylinder. Wouldnt this make the truck smoke badly?

My wrench turner is going to remove it this week but now you have me worried about the engine!!
Author:  geordi [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Here's the main thing that I learned - If your turbo starts making noises... STOP RUNNING THE ENGINE IMMEDIATELY until you figure out why, and if you have an oil leak.

Yes, the exhaust smoked, but no worse (IMHO) than when it is overfueling from a disconnected CAC hose.
Author:  smokinbubba [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Well its official, the shaft moves 1/4" in all directions and there is a split CAC hose. Dont know what to do now :( :( :(

Know where I can get an inexpensive turbo??? Money is awfull tight right now.
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
I read a past post that mentioned the name of a compnay in California that rebuilt our turbos at a very reasonable price. Do a search.
Author:  Drewd [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
don't know if you did or not but I'm very religious about turbo cooldowns. 1 minute for regular driving, 2 minutes for highway driving, and 5-7 minutes for highway towing.
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
racertracer wrote:
I read a past post that mentioned the name of a compnay in California that rebuilt our turbos at a very reasonable price. Do a search.



There are a number of new and remanned turbo suppliers that can get there hands on a Garrett turbo that is the one in our CRD's. Try...

http://www.turbosupply.net/ out of Joplin, MO. They supply a lot of turbos to trucking. They reman a lot of turbos and do the Garretts.

or

http://www.turbochargerpros.com/ Not familiar with them, but they do mention in the site they are able to get CRD turbos.

Going third party on these probably will save money over going OEM for your turbo.
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Drewd wrote:
don't know if you did or not but I'm very religious about turbo cooldowns. 1 minute for regular driving, 2 minutes for highway driving, and 5-7 minutes for highway towing.


Turbo cooldown is a carry over from the old days. Not a bad idea, but no one needs to be fanatical about it. Most turbos today will "cool" down just in the time it takes to slow down, roll easy down the street, and get in your driveway. Only if you are under full power and then shut the key off would there be a possibility of cooking the tubo. They only get truly hot enough to be a problem when they are being worked like under a high fueling, hard towing situation or if there is significant exhaust restriction. The oil circulation and and lack of fueling when coasting down will cool a turbo down pretty fast. I haven't worried about turbo cool down even with my semi engines for over a decade now. Never have lost a turbo in my trucks in the last 2 million miles... 1.4 million on my last truck, 579,000 on this one. Have only lost an actuator on my current ISX with a VG turbo like the one in our CRD's. I usually will only wait a minute before shutting down the engine, even pulling heavy loads.

As a matter of fact... I even have turbo blankets on my turbos to help keep exhaust in the turbo from cooling too quickly and creating a restriction in exhaust flow. This helps with turbo spool up and generating boost. Pittsburgh Power has done a lot of research on doing this and it works. One would think that this would "cook" a turbo, but in fact, it produces lower EGT's because the exhaust flows more quickly and is actually easier on the turbo. The side benefit is that less heat builds up in the engine compartment.
Author:  kapalczynski [ Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Cowpie1 wrote:
Drewd wrote:
don't know if you did or not but I'm very religious about turbo cooldowns. 1 minute for regular driving, 2 minutes for highway driving, and 5-7 minutes for highway towing.


Turbo cooldown is a carry over from the old days. Not a bad idea, but no one needs to be fanatical about it. Most turbos today will "cool" down just in the time it takes to slow down, roll easy down the street, and get in your driveway. Only if you are under full power and then shut the key off would there be a possibility of cooking the tubo. They only get truly hot enough to be a problem when they are being worked like under a high fueling, hard towing situation or if there is significant exhaust restriction. The oil circulation and and lack of fueling when coasting down will cool a turbo down pretty fast. I haven't worried about turbo cool down even with my semi engines for over a decade now. Never have lost a turbo in my trucks in the last 2 million miles... 1.4 million on my last truck, 579,000 on this one. Have only lost an actuator on my current ISX with a VG turbo like the one in our CRD's. I usually will only wait a minute before shutting down the engine, even pulling heavy loads.

As a matter of fact... I even have turbo blankets on my turbos to help keep exhaust in the turbo from cooling too quickly and creating a restriction in exhaust flow. This helps with turbo spool up and generating boost. Pittsburgh Power has done a lot of research on doing this and it works. One would think that this would "cook" a turbo, but in fact, it produces lower EGT's because the exhaust flows more quickly and is actually easier on the turbo. The side benefit is that less heat builds up in the engine compartment.


The factory jeep manual does mention turbo cool down based on driving conditions...like you say, not sure if it is really necessary though. $1253.50 at moparonlineparts.com I swear they used to be just under $800 when I looked them up awhile back... :( If mine ever goes I may end up going the GDE turbo route.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Yow that is a price jump! I know what you mean about the $800 price, that is only a hundred more than I got mine for from a dealer buddy. (Got it at cost at that time) so the jump to $1200... Someone isn't being a nice discounter anymore, or Fiat has decided to REALLY start screwing the current parts market. Not nice.
Author:  Big Montana [ Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
Quote:
If mine ever goes I may end up going the GDE turbo route.


I did take a ride in the GDE turbo tuned rig while getting my ECU flashed. It was pretty cool. It's louder than ours, sort of like a sports car.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Turbo troubles
TDI forums have posts about people freeing up the veins and bringing turbos back to life. In your case it sounds like the center section is trashed and a good re-builder can fix what is needed for a better price. Cowpie makes a good recommendation.
If you want to solve the problem with the sticking veins often caused by carbon or fried oil additives.
1) Provent, Home Made Oil Separator, or EHM to keep the excess oil out of the cylinders where it gets burned and deposited in the exhaust including the turbo.
2) Disable the EGR.
To keep from frying the turbo:
1) Don't use cruse up a steep grade when towing, it will rev the engine too high (3,500 - 4,500+) by doing something stupid like shifting into 3rd at 60MPH and spike the EGT. Use your foot, it won't do it.
2) Install a Boost gauge and EGT gauge, that way you know what is up.

Hotel Owner's Wife's salad recipe special ingredient, also suitable for serving to stingy Bean Counter Engineers:
Add small lumps of coal to the salad instead of croutons, watch for diamonds coming out the other end of the Husband. :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/