LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

how do I get the best brakes money can buy
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54331		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Big Montana [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  how do I get the best brakes money can buy
At 38k my front rotors were turned while back rotors were replaced with all new pads.
At 53k all four rotors were turned.
Now I'm at 81k and the brakes are a mess again. Pulses, jerks, grinding.

That means I have a set of front rotors 81k old with two turns on average 33k... That's probably pretty good.
I have a pair of rear rotors 43k old with a turn at 15k and now needing it again at 28k
I have a set of pads 43k old.
But the brakes have been bad since about 75k

It just seems that the rotors shouldn't need to be turned so much. Perhaps I'm expecting too much. I put 80k on rotors and pads on a Subaru without ANY service in between. I'm not sure the Jeep is THAT much heavier. The Subaru had AWD too. Perhaps I'm way off.

In any event, if I take my Jeep back in this week, is there a brand of rotor I should buy no matter what to have the shop replace? I was pricing Wagner's at O'Rielly, but I'm not too sure what is the BEST for long life.

I do live in Michigan with salty roads so perhps there is nothing can do.
Author:  NJCRD [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
The best you can get and be worry free
Frozenrotors.com
Author:  flman [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
I usually just get the OE ones from the dealer for best life, I find the after market ones last about 1/3 the life of OE, plus they squeak, and smoke, and warp your rotors. Or you can try the frozenrotors.com as suggested.
Author:  audiboy86 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
I have EBC all the way around and they will about put you through the windshield when you go to stop. Only got 15k on them so far but no squealing and very low dust. I got the green stuff 7000 series pads on front and i believe the backs are also 7000 series but i am not sure. The rotors are drilled and slotted on the front and just slotted on the rear. I don't have any hot spots or any ridges building up on them yet and they all look perfectly smooth even after mudding and off-roading.
Author:  NJCRD [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
Mine are factory rotors by frozen rotors that are slotted and cross drilled. I run mopar pads and have had no issues for over a year of hard driving and beach driving in the summer.
No dust. If you got that many miles out of your original rotors I could easily see you never needing new ones with the frozen jobs.
Author:  jinstall [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
I run DBA rotors at all 4 corners, EBC Yellow stuff up front and OEM pads for the rear. All in all about $700 in parts, and it pulls down like it. I have never had fade and the only bad thing I can say about them is that being slotted rotors, they are dusty, just because they are slotted. Slotted rotors will make any pad more dusty. BTW DBA rotors are side specific so you will get a right and left rotor if you order correctly.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
jinstall wrote:
I run DBA rotors at all 4 corners, EBC Yellow stuff up front and OEM pads for the rear. All in all about $700 in parts, and it pulls down like it. I have never had fade and the only bad thing I can say about them is that being slotted rotors, they are dusty, just because they are slotted. Slotted rotors will make any pad more dusty. BTW DBA rotors are side specific so you will get a right and left rotor if you order correctly.

Slotted rotors do not have anything to do with being "dusty",that is all in the pads for the dust.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
I suggest ART cryogenic front rotors and Porterfield R4S pads (definitely NOT PF ".20" pads).

DOC
Author:  dkenny [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
while this might seem odd its not.

buy the best rotors and the cheapest ( short life pads )..its easy and cheap to replace pads. rotor are more costly.
I don't have an opinion on rotors..my wife's jeep still has the original( pads and rotors)..she has almost 60k miles.

just my 2 cents
-dkenny
Author:  jinstall [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
tjkj2002 wrote:
jinstall wrote:
I run DBA rotors at all 4 corners, EBC Yellow stuff up front and OEM pads for the rear. All in all about $700 in parts, and it pulls down like it. I have never had fade and the only bad thing I can say about them is that being slotted rotors, they are dusty, just because they are slotted. Slotted rotors will make any pad more dusty. BTW DBA rotors are side specific so you will get a right and left rotor if you order correctly.

Slotted rotors do not have anything to do with being "dusty",that is all in the pads for the dust.


Ah that would no, the slotting will actually add to the dust of the pads because of the "cheese grater" effect of the slots. Although the slots aid in "wiping" away gas built up by friction and heat of the braking process, any surface that is not smooth will cause extra friction on the pad surface as it wipes under the pressure and rotation of the rotor. Most brake rotor manufactures will state this in their instruction.

Left Front from DBA:
Image
By jinstall at 2009-05-28

EBC Yellow Stuff front pad:
Image
By jinstall at 2009-05-28
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
jinstall wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
jinstall wrote:
I run DBA rotors at all 4 corners, EBC Yellow stuff up front and OEM pads for the rear. All in all about $700 in parts, and it pulls down like it. I have never had fade and the only bad thing I can say about them is that being slotted rotors, they are dusty, just because they are slotted. Slotted rotors will make any pad more dusty. BTW DBA rotors are side specific so you will get a right and left rotor if you order correctly.

Slotted rotors do not have anything to do with being "dusty",that is all in the pads for the dust.


Ah that would no, the slotting will actually add to the dust of the pads because of the "cheese grater" effect of the slots. Although the slots aid in "wiping" away gas built up by friction and heat of the braking process, any surface that is not smooth will cause extra friction on the pad surface as it wipes under the pressure and rotation of the rotor. Most brake rotor manufactures will state this in their instruction.

Left Front from DBA:
Image
By jinstall at 2009-05-28

EBC Yellow Stuff front pad:
Image
By jinstall at 2009-05-28

I run frozen Powerslots up front and the EBC Yellow Stuff pads and have zero brake dust,had zero brake dust on the old setup of frozen Powerslots and Napa Ceramics.

Slotted rotors have nothing to do with brake dust.
Author:  jinstall [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
I have been running slotted rotors for more that 7 years now, it does cause more brake dust, I have been cleaning the wheels to prove it. I have had this conversation as well with Brembo and Mov'it at the several auto shows, they have all agreed on the fact that it does cause premature wear and more brake dust on wheels. More friction causes more wear which causes more dust. Friction and heat and something has to give, that would be the pad. The turns into dust, if you increase the friction then you increase the wear which turns into dust from a pad that was solid now turning into dust. Cross-Drilling only increases the rough braking surface even more.

I drive the KJ everyday and the wheels are black in a matter of 72 hours. The stock brakes did not do that. The race car uses slotted rotors and the brake dust comes off in dropletts. ne weekend and the wheels are completely black.
Author:  NJCRD [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
I've been running slotted and cross drilled frozen rotors and mopar pad with no brake dust for 15,000 + miles.
Aggressive pads produce more brake dust. Its a proven fact.
Author:  jinstall [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
As do aggressive pads on aggresive rotors. 15 years of racing cars has taught me a thing or two about braking systems. So has asking engineers of the biggest brake manufacturer in the world. When your life depends on a car stopping, you make sure you have the right stuff installed on the car. At 170 mph, your research and installation, your life as well as others depends on it.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
Whatever you use, for the love of God don't use C-Max ceramic pads from AutoZone. I bought those to use on my Ram 1500 and they were garbage. Over priced garbage. They actually dusted MORE than the OEM pads did, and the stopping power was decreased (something I knew would happen from reading reviews before buying them), and the backs of the pads had a rubber layer on them that created a spongly feel in the brake pedal for about 5,000 miles. What a waste of money. They were such garbage that after about 6 months I took them off, went to the store, and pleaded for my money back.

Nothing but good old fashioned semi-metallic for me from now on.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
jinstall wrote:
I have been running slotted rotors for more that 7 years now, it does cause more brake dust, I have been cleaning the wheels to prove it. I have had this conversation as well with Brembo and Mov'it at the several auto shows, they have all agreed on the fact that it does cause premature wear and more brake dust on wheels. More friction causes more wear which causes more dust. Friction and heat and something has to give, that would be the pad. The turns into dust, if you increase the friction then you increase the wear which turns into dust from a pad that was solid now turning into dust. Cross-Drilling only increases the rough braking surface even more.

I drive the KJ everyday and the wheels are black in a matter of 72 hours. The stock brakes did not do that. The race car uses slotted rotors and the brake dust comes off in dropletts. ne weekend and the wheels are completely black.

Some pads create more dust then others.It is impossible for a rotor to great more dust,all that dust is from the pads no matter how the rotor is made.If your getting dust from the rotor you use you got some major issues that need to be addressed.


Oh and cross drilled rotors serve no other purpose then to reduce braking surface and reduce rotational weight,no other benefit is seen from cross drilled rotors.They actually reduce braking performance and are prone to cracking,more so when used in a daily driver.


For slotted rotors 99% of DD use will not warrant slotted rotors as modern pads do not "out gas" like older pads.During extreme use slotted rotors do help keep pad glazing down like in racing and rock crawling where the rotors do not get time(or the air flow) to cool down properly.
Author:  jinstall [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
tjkj2002 wrote:
jinstall wrote:
I have been running slotted rotors for more that 7 years now, it does cause more brake dust, I have been cleaning the wheels to prove it. I have had this conversation as well with Brembo and Mov'it at the several auto shows, they have all agreed on the fact that it does cause premature wear and more brake dust on wheels. More friction causes more wear which causes more dust. Friction and heat and something has to give, that would be the pad. The turns into dust, if you increase the friction then you increase the wear which turns into dust from a pad that was solid now turning into dust. Cross-Drilling only increases the rough braking surface even more.

I drive the KJ everyday and the wheels are black in a matter of 72 hours. The stock brakes did not do that. The race car uses slotted rotors and the brake dust comes off in dropletts. ne weekend and the wheels are completely black.

Some pads create more dust then others.It is impossible for a rotor to great more dust,all that dust is from the pads no matter how the rotor is made.If your getting dust from the rotor you use you got some major issues that need to be addressed.


Oh and cross drilled rotors serve no other purpose then to reduce braking surface and reduce rotational weight,no other benefit is seen from cross drilled rotors.They actually reduce braking performance and are prone to cracking,more so when used in a daily driver.


For slotted rotors 99% of DD use will not warrant slotted rotors as modern pads do not "out gas" like older pads.During extreme use slotted rotors do help keep pad glazing down like in racing and rock crawling where the rotors do not get time(or the air flow) to cool down properly.



For once you finally said something correct "For slotted rotors 99% of DD use will not warrant slotted rotors as modern pads do not "out gas" like older pads.During extreme use slotted rotors do help keep pad glazing down like in racing and rock crawling where the rotors do not get time(or the air flow) to cool down properly"

Cross drilled rotors that are done correctly, do serve a purpose and provide better braking, but they have to be CAST with the holes in them, not drilled. Brembo is a prime example of this. They cast their rotors with a majority of the hole in the rotor and then finish the opening with a special machine. The holes provide cooling and water wiping during rain. That is why they are OEM on perfomance cars. Yes they are prone to cracking but when they have reach a hole to hole crack they have usually been run out by then. I have used drilled rotors for one season, unless they are Brembo, AP Racing or OMP, I will not go back to them. When used as a DD rotor they can last just as long as any other rotor, stop by any Porsche Boxster and take a look at it. Staring around the holes is normal.

Again, I disagree about rotor surface not adding to the wear on pads. Take your hand and drag it across a flat baking pan, did you loose any skin? Try it over a chesse grater, sis the same thing happen? I will take 15 years of racing, engineers from OMP, AP Racing, Brembo, Mov'It, Porsche, Ford Europe, Opel, VW and Audi have all told me the same thing about brake rotor surfaces and added brake dust/Pad wear, if it is not a smooth surface, then it will cause additional wear.

Sorry if you cannot understand this but if you get the mentioned above kitchen items I think you will understand very quickly what is being said.
Author:  Boiler [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
According to Brembo's website, slots and drilled holes give more bite, keep the pad surface "refreshed" and can allow gas out as well as make the pads cooler.

Are they significantly cooler? Probably not much. Does gas normally form in modern brake pads? My understanding is no, but they aren't lying when they said their pads would let gas out.

The real things they offer IMO is the extra bite and pad surface cleaning. You're going to stop better because there will be no glaze and there is an improved bite due to more cutting edges.

JINSTALL: so far Troy is right, brake dust is about the pad. Ceramics don't leave dust deposits on your wheels like semi-metallics do. I believe that is what he was getting at. The argument was about brake dust, not wear, until your last thread. Even if you meant that the pad would wear faster, everyone was talking about brake dust, which one would assume to mean brake dust accumulations on the vehicle.

I think we can all agree that the slots and holes will have some effect on wear, now that you're introducing cutting edges.
Author:  NJCRD [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
After 15,000 + miles. I drive hard, with a lot of stop and go city driving. There are after market pads that granted may help stop a little better but that is usually negligible when factors such as are the pads designed to have a little heat in them in order to work best? These are factory Mopar Rotors from frozen rotors with Mopar pads from moparpartsamerica.com
Stopping is amazing with no fade or warping. No dust. You'll appreciate them in heavy rain.

Image
Author:  jinstall [ Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do I get the best brakes money can buy
Boiler wrote:
According to Brembo's website, slots and drilled holes give more bite, keep the pad surface "refreshed" and can allow gas out as well as make the pads cooler.

Are they significantly cooler? Probably not much. Does gas normally form in modern brake pads? My understanding is no, but they aren't lying when they said their pads would let gas out.

The real things they offer IMO is the extra bite and pad surface cleaning. You're going to stop better because there will be no glaze and there is an improved bite due to more cutting edges.

JINSTALL: so far Troy is right, brake dust is about the pad. Ceramics don't leave dust deposits on your wheels like semi-metallics do. I believe that is what he was getting at. The argument was about brake dust, not wear, until your last thread. Even if you meant that the pad would wear faster, everyone was talking about brake dust, which one would assume to mean brake dust accumulations on the vehicle.

I think we can all agree that the slots and holes will have some effect on wear, now that you're introducing cutting edges.


I understand what the DISCUSSION was about, brake dust. What exactly is brake dust? Brake material that worn off the pad, ie residue in a powder form. When you increase friction material, it creates more residue as well as heat. I understand how much difference pad compounds make when leaving residue as well as rotor material and braking habits. I can drive easy all week and hardly have any dust on my wheels. I can take the Jeep out for a few high speed runs and the wheels are almost black from residue and the residue is much more coarse. If a pad wears faster then it will leave more residue, the material has to go somewhere.

I am a big fan of Ferodo pads, big stopping power, high fade resistance, super dirty. I used EBC Reds on the same race car and chewed the Reds off in 1500 miles. The Ferodo pads are still on 3 years later on dedicated track car. Unfortunately Ferodo does not make the DS Series for the Jeep. They do offer a "normal" series for the Jeep but I have only seen them in Germany.

Something else no one has brought up and is just as important, CLEAN BRAKE FLUID is a must. If you fluid is not clear like new, you have oxidation issues with your rubber parts in the brake system. If the fluid is gray or black, your braking issues might just be a fluid flush away. I plan on later this year changing the KJ over to ATE Super Blue lie I use in the race car. Clean fluid is a must to keep contaminates out of the system and causing rubber parts failer. if you have a soft pedal try flushing the fluid out and you should see a much firmer pedal.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/