propane injection

salden77 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:42 pm **Posts:** 271

has anyone on here messed with propane injection on the CRD?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:29 pm

Propane injection has been discussed before and the idea was dropped after the following issues came up:
1) Propane costs more than diesel most of the time if you factor in the BTUs/dollar.
2) Place to put the propane tank no open space available unlike a Pickup truck.
3) All propane is, is a fuel substitution not a performance enhancer unless the engine is way under fueled like some of the old diesels were to reduce smoke, propane injection was called a, "Torque Topper" on these old rigs so they could climb the hill.
4) State and Local Safety Legislation that varies.
5) Possible fuel tax evasion charges can be filed depending upon the State you live in and drive in. Illinois Department of Revenue can be complete @$$holes (better carry reciepts from your propane purchase showing the road & sales tax has been paid). They even went after an 85 year old (in Court) for running WVO in his old IDI (pre TDI) VW Golf Diesel. Other states don't care or have exemptions, your job to check.

Good luck

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:23 pm

Propane is not more expensive than diesel here in the Seattle area. As I understand it propane acts as a catalyst and increases the amount of diesel fuel burnt. It in effect gives more BTU's than does standard diesel. Therefore more power.

salden77 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:42 pm **Posts:** 271

Well from what I understand is that the guys that use it in there dodge cummins are seeing a mileage increase from 4 to 6 more mpg. I was just wondering what kind of kits are available, the cost of the kit, and how easy the install would be on a crd

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:35 am

salden77 wrote:

Well from what I understand is that the guys that use it in there dodge cummins are seeing a mileage increase from 4 to 6 more mpg. I was just wondering what kind of kits are available, the cost of the kit, and how easy the install would be on a crd

salden, I honestly don't think that anyone on here has actually found and installed a propane injection kit, so I'm not sure if we can give you specifics on cost/effect. This idea pops up from time to time and is usually shot down immediately, with the OP never returning...

Warp raises some valid concerns.

salden77 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:42 pm **Posts:** 271

I don't know much about it, just have heard things about it.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:06 am

CRD Joe wrote:

Propane is not more expensive than diesel here in the Seattle area. As I understand it propane acts as a catalyst and increases the amount of diesel fuel burnt. It in effect gives more BTU's than does standard diesel. Therefore more power.

The defnition of a catalyst is: a species that lowers the activation energy of a reaction while not being consumed itself. The net effect observed is an increase in the kinetic rate of a reaction. Because it is consumed during combustion, propane is a reagent, not a catalyst.

If it has fewer BTUs than diesel, it has fewer BTUs than diesel. No sort of alchemy takes place to increase the energy content.

Depending on how it's introduced to the cylinder, there are likely only two main effects it could have.... If introduced with the air charge, it is going to really cool that down due to heat of expansion and allow for a denser air charge to be fed into the cylinder...in a way, this would be like getting additional boost from the turbo. If introduced with the fuel through the injectors, it would probably help with atomization. Packing more air into the cylinder is probalby the bigger bang for your buck though.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:04 am

salden77 wrote:

Well from what I understand is that the guys that use it in there dodge cummins are seeing a mileage increase from 4 to 6 more mpg. I was just wondering what kind of kits are available, the cost of the kit, and how easy the install would be on a crd

Increase fuel other than diesel, diesel consumption will go down, in the end, BTUs in = energy out put.
If there were any catalyst effect the duel fuel engine and gen-set manufactures would have been bragging about it for years and I have never seen it or heard of them bragging. Any other claims of enhanced burning catalyst effects must be coming from the out of work Global Warming Scientists turned Snake Oil Salesmen.
Gen-set users look at the bottom line and want to produce electricity as cheap as possible. There are both spark ignition-natural gas/propane/biomass methane engines and dual fuel diesel/natural gas/propane/biomass methane engines in use. With the dual fuel diesel, the quantity of diesel fuel decreases as the quantity of natural gas/propane/biomass methane is increased. Mixers for the gas are tuned to accommodate the type of gas being used.

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:13 am

There is a lot of discussion about propane injection within the large trucking community. Some have done it, but it really doesn't produce the results the sellers of these kits have claimed. Of course, in trucking, cost is the primary motivator, and it doesn't really save anything after one figures in the cost of the system, installation, and then carrying around propane as well.

That being said, it seems to me that the propane idea is just trying to go about things in a backwards way. The primary motivation for fuel to burn efficiently is having enough oxygen to do the job. EGR greatly reduces the available oxygen to the engine. Just adding propane is adding a fuel that likewise needs oxygen to burn and therefore creating a competition for oxygen amoungst two different fuels. Eliminating the EGR influence seems to be the logical solution to getting the max effeciency out of a diesel engine.

Who knows for sure. I am not going to invest in a propane injection system. Can't see that there would be any cost advantage.

jbees · **Joined:** Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:45 pm **Posts:** 20

I have it on my dodge 3500 and am still on the fence with it. Things it does do-picked up a couple mpg; can feel power surge when activated; engine likes it and seems to run smoother; oil stays cleaner longer. Negatives-cost of propane is going up faster than diesel; your lifting propane tanks at every fill up (unless you spend a fortune to mount one under your truck with a remote fill); finding a place to mount a tank that isn't taking up space; and I'd really have to do some long range driving and ciefering to figure out the the worth over just diesel.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:08 am

With some of the States like Illinois on the verge of Bankruptcy, having a propane tank on your Jeep or Truck will be another thing that the Tax Jerk will be looking for to collect money from you on.
Besides, loading up the Courts with small time petty transgressions like using propane with out paying the road tax will make Prosecutors less apt to go after the Politicians, who are the Real Crooks who caused the problems with the economy in the first place. :2cents:

propane injection

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