Coincidence?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:24 pm

Strikes me as passing strange that GM just happened to have TV commercials ready to go and started airing them, for their flexfuel vehicles able to run ethanol, just as soon as old Lonesome George was done with his state of the union speech. Smells just a little fishy.

But not a word on biodiesel, which is growing by the day without any boost from the Oval Office.

As far as the reference to "Lonesome George", if you don't understand that one, don't feel bad. There was a comedian back in the 60's named George Goebel, who was a regular on the variety TV shows back then, and his nickname was "Lonesome George". It just means you're not an old fart like me.

bhysjulien · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:32 pm

When I saw it I thought you were referring to Lonesome George the Basset by Tom T Hall. Does that make me an old fart too?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:43 pm

bhysjulien wrote:

When I saw it I thought you were referring to Lonesome George the Basset by Tom T Hall. Does that make me an old fart too?

I don't know on that one, to tell the truth I've never heard of the song, so can't make the call on the "old fart" rating. :wink:

Just in case anyone thinks I'm singling out the old boy in particular, as far as I'm concerned they're ALL a bunch of comedians up in DC. Too bad most of the time it's a comedy of errors. :roll:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:22 am

Hummmm, I remember getting up in the morning on Saturday and listening to radio, not TV kiddies. When I was born WWII was still on, and I remember listening to afternoon morning radio. I remember when Captian Kangaroo show started, the Steve Allen show and Johny Carson starting off, evening news was 15 minutes. I better stop, before I start sounding like an "OLD FART".

dog_party · **Posted:** Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:11 am

retmil46 wrote:

Strikes me as passing strange that GM just happened to have TV commercials ready to go and started airing them, for their flexfuel vehicles able to run ethanol, just as soon as old Lonesome George was done with his state of the union speech. Smells just a little fishy.

But not a word on biodiesel, which is growing by the day without any boost from the Oval Office.

I'm glad someone else noticed that there wasn't a single mention of biodiesel for all of us who are "addicted to oil." I also found it a little "lobbied" that GM ran the big live green go yellow spot right after the Big Address.

I'm still mad that Ford ran the Kermit Escape Hybrid ad too. Seeing Kermit bound down the river was awesome! Ha! I really wish that had been a Jeep Liberty sitting up there buring bio though, instead of some stupid hybrid. Yea, that's really "Green." Whatever. People will believe anything.

I don't think Kermit would ever do a bio commercial though...seeing as we could probably stick him in a food processor and run our trucks on what came out the other end. :wink:

I couldn't agree more that they're all commedians up there in DC. It reminds me of Roseanne...you know, the kinda comedy that just makes you cringe and dive for the remote when you accidentally turn the TV on and someone has left it on that station.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:13 pm

I went up to Homer's in Statesville last night to to fill up on B20. I was still good for a few more days, but they're calling for some nasty weather this week. Didn't want to try going up there in the middle of an ice storm, or after two clogged fuel filters, resorting to the local #2.

They also sell E85 there. After I was done, I checked their posted list of known approved vehicles that could run E85 without any problem. Let's just say it was a pretty short list.

So there's another reason they're pushing ethanol. If you're driving an older vehicle or one that isn't designed to make use of it (Note - I didn't see my former vehicle, an '04 Dakota, anywhere on the list), you'd have to trade for another vehicle that can run it. Makes George look green and helps GM sell cars.

IMHO, the reason he's pushing ethanol and not a word about biodiesel - the powers that be stand to make more money off of ethanol than biodiesel. Money always talks.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:26 pm

Hey 43 mentioned biodiesel couple times since then, maybe someone has put a bug in his ear....I mean buck in his hand. :roll:

Man I just finished ordering a new Compaq V5000Z laptop well equipped for $891 after tax and S&H.

dog_party · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:59 pm

Good point retmil46. I'm sure that's why E85 was mentioned too. There's nothing that's mentioned that didn't put a buck in someone's pocket. And there's nothing blatantly left out that doesn't put a buck in someone's pocket too.

There's something like 50 vhicles on the E85 list. Here's the list in PDF form for anyone interested. I really can't believe Daimler Chrysler isn't jumping on GMs little "look at us we're green and yellow and at the forefront" thing. DC has the most vehicles on the list and they go back to 1998. GM's list only goes back to 2002 and almost every vehicle has a model restriction on the claim. "3.5L Chevrolet Monte Carlo (LS and LT models only)." I'm not trying to badmouth Chevy, just trying to figure out why DC isn't saying anything about it. Also wondering why Ford doesn't say anything. They're second on the list and Henry Ford was the original ethanol-pushing visionary.

Oh well, I guess DC and Ford didn't know GM was going to pay off the writer of the president's speech. ;-)

oldnavy wrote:

Hey 43 mentioned biodiesel couple times since then, maybe someone has put a bug in his ear....I mean buck in his hand.

I've been out of the news loop with the empending wedding plans. What did I miss?

oldnavy wrote:

Man I just finished ordering a new Compaq V5000Z laptop well equipped for $891 after tax and S&H.

It's amazing how cheaply you can get a decent computer any more, isn't it? People are into the wireless router thing so heavy that they've driven down the cost of laptop by an insane margin. Couple years ago I bought a well-used Dell laptop for what you just paid for a new laptop. Craziness!

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:16 pm

dog_party wrote:

I've been out of the news loop with the empending wedding plans. What did I miss?

oldnavy wrote:

Man I just finished ordering a new Compaq V5000Z laptop well equipped for $891 after tax and S&H.

It's amazing how cheaply you can get a decent computer any more, isn't it? People are into the wireless router thing so heavy that they've driven down the cost of laptop by an insane margin. Couple years ago I bought a well-used Dell laptop for what you just paid for a new laptop. Craziness!

Didn't miss much, justy about it (bio-diesel) being important to trucking industry is all.

It is kind of crazy about the drop in Laptop prices, but I'm not complaining. The little Compaq Presario 2100 I am using at this moment is so far behind the V5000Z and it was couple hundred dollar more then the new V5000Z. But just wait, ten years from now people will laugh at my V5000Z.

Here is how equipped.

Compaq Presario V5000Z CTO NB
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with SP2
AMD Turion(TM) 64 ML-34 (1.8GHz/1MB L2 Cache)
15.4" WXGA BrightView Widescreen (1280x800)
128MB ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M w/Hypermemory Graffic's card
512MB DDR SDRAM (1x512MB) one slot open
40 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive
DVD+/-RW/R & CD-RW Combo w/Double Layer Support (allows for up to 8.5 gig of files to be put on a CD)
54g 802.11b/g WLAN w/125HSM!!
12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Microsoft Works/Money (they would not delete)

Ripple · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:30 pm

I think e85 should be promoted for what it is, a 100+ octane performance fuel. think of all the hot rods you could buy if 100+ octane fuel flowed like water.

calling it green (or yellow) amounts to a little less than an fat lie. not only does one burn more of it per mile, but one also gets little, or no more OUT of e85 than one puts IN (energy balance from 1 : .76 to 1 : 1.64 according what/who you read)

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

retmil46 wrote:

I went up to Homer's in Statesville last night to to fill up on B20. I was still good for a few more days, but they're calling for some nasty weather this week. Didn't want to try going up there in the middle of an ice storm, or after two clogged fuel filters, resorting to the local #2.

They also sell E85 there. After I was done, I checked their posted list of known approved vehicles that could run E85 without any problem. Let's just say it was a pretty short list.

I filled up with B20 biodiesel at the Johnston Road location in Charlotte last week. At that station, the same pump station has B20 biodiesel, E10, E85 and standard gasolene. The B20 is on one nozzle, while all the E10, E85 and gasolene are all on another single nozzle, with only the selector buttons to change the fuel choice. While I was filling up, a Honda Accord pulled up to the other side of the pump, and in spite of the many warning signs that E85 is not gasolene and should only be used in Flex Fuel vehicles, the owner filled it up with E85. This Honda looked to be a 1998 vintage model, not designed for ethanol.

Have to wonder how long it will be before their fuel system starts dissolving. I didn't realize what was happening until I pulled away and saw what they were putting in their car. Several months ago, a woman in her Ford Escape nearly did the same thing, but she asked me if E85 was good for her Ford. Since her owners manual didn't show any Flex Fuel compatiblity (only way I could think of to find out if it was safe right there at the pump), she went to another pump and bought gasolene. Wonder how many have put E85 into their cars and never even realized what they were doing?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:36 pm

Go to Dodge FFV site and they state 30% drop in mpg's.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:48 pm

About 99.5% of the cars on the road now are not compatable to even E10, let alone E85. When I was new car hunting in '04, most cars I looked at did not recommend even E10 fuel use. My Magnum says not to use the E10, and when traveling to WI I had to use E10 and MPG's dropped about 3 mpg on that trip. No damage to the car, just my wallet. That may have been why D/C was telling me not to use the stuff.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

30% drop in fuel economy is probably correct. That will look good compared to dissolved fuel pump plastic gears and in tank fuel gauge floats. Savings will be long gone once those repairs are paid for. Unless they dump their vehicles on the used car market. If E85 becomes widely available, the used car market will probably be seeing a lot of cars with mystery fuel problems.

valkraider · **Posted:** Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:44 pm

All gasoline burning cars in the USA for years have been compatible with E10. All gasoline in Minnesota is E10. Many larger cities switch to E10 during the winter months, and have done so for a decade. Many states do as well, such as California and New York.

Many states that are banning MTBE are switching to E10 as well.

E10 will drop your mileage only 2 to 3 % depending on the vehicle. On a 15mpg vehicle that is less than half a mile per gallon (3% is .45mpg to be exact).

In fact, any place you see "oxygenated" you are most likely burning E10, as it is now the oxygenate most commonly used. MTBE is being phased out almost everywhere.

Most all states and the federal government have "oxygenated fuel" programs for the winter months. Usually they only apply to the largest metropolitan areas.

Portland, Oregon has used E10 between the beginning of November and the beginning of March - since 1992. This has been in effect for the tri-county area in which over two million people live.

E10 will not harm you vehicle. It is warranted by every vehicle manufacturer that sells vehicles in the USA, and is in fact recommended by a few.

As far as the Dodge Magnum, I cannot say exactly. The only text I could find from Dodge owners manual resources online was this:

"Some fuel suppliers blend unleaded gasoline with oxygenates such as 10% ethanol… Fuels blended with these oxygenates may be used in your vehicle. Reformulated gasolines contain oxygenates, and are specifically blended to reduce vehicle emissions and improve air quality. DaimlerChrysler Corporation supports the use of reformulated gasolines. Properly blended reformulated gasolines will provide excellent performance and durability for the engine and fuel system components."

Now, anything over E10 will mess up your gasoline car.

Note: I have no stock in Ethanol companies or work for the Ethanol industry, I don't live in an ethanol producing state, and I don't even currently own any gasoline powered automobiles. I also believe that the production of Ethanol using corn is not the best route, but that there is promise in cellulose ethanol production.

Taz · **Posted:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:41 am

There is an economic reason to go with ethanol over biodiesel. GM and Ford have no small diesels waiting in the wings to put into their cars. They could have 100% E-85 fleets in a few years or less if they wanted to. There is also a political reason, the environmentalists carry a large vote, hence the new diesel restrictions that go into effect next year and will essentially kill the expansion of diesel offerings in this country.

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