Has anyone done a complete egr removal? Truck has started to smoke more on heave throttle and boost sensor gets dirty so I think it is time to remove various obstructions in the intake path and clean from one end to the other, replace cac hoses, remove and clean cac and remove and clean intake.

If I am going to be nutty enough to do all this there are some parts that I will not want to put back on. anyone have any guidance?
I will get rid of codes with Green Diesel the rest I should be able to get thru I hope


jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock

Jim, if you are investing in a GDE tune then you will not need to do anything with the egr valve. The Tune eliminates the use of it.

_________________
2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"

i thought that the tune didnt eliminate the use of EGR completely, i thought it still used it at certain times during idle still?

also jim i took my throttle body and the metal intake tube apart on my libby and cleaned it, what a pain in the butt, if you have big hands then your not going to have a fun time getting the intake tube un bolted from the intake manifold, my tube had about 1/4-1/2 inch of soot built up in it, you will also have to replace gasket between intake manifold and intake tube(mine basically fell apart on removal), and also make sure you completely remove the clamp on the metal hose going to your EGR thats attached to the bottom of the intake tube. i ended up tweaking the tube on mine and it was a pain in the but to get connected back up to the intake tube correctly.

_________________
05 CRD Limited, SEGR Kit, EHM, Selectrack Alpine DVD, 6000k HID headlights, Aux Lift Pump, 2.5" straight pipe, Diablo Extreme Puck, Euro converter
02 SLT Cummins H.O. 6spd manual with southbend 3850dd, fass 150hd, ddp 150hp injectors, arp studs, adrenaline stacked w smarty, traction bars, 6 inch stacks, level kit, bhaf

Read the GDE fine print, they don't delete it, just cut it back, to satisfy their interpretations of the EPA regulations, of which they are free to do.
Then make your own choice.
If you want to kill it you need an SEGR and a plate.
Myself and others express our views in the thread CARB Busted and other threads.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

x2. There is one particular instance in which the EGR is still used, something like turbo boost pressure release. The important thing is the GDE tune completely eliminates the soot problem relative to the EGR, so no tampering with the EGR is necessary.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, Limited
GDE Eco Tune, GDE TCM Tune, Bauer 203* Tstat, Amsoil EaA 201 Filter, Clean MAP, Samco CAC Hoses, Magnaflow Muffler #12226.
New Mopar Fuel Filter, K&N Filterminder, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
225/75R16 Hankook Dynapros

It is possible to accomplish what you are looking for, without any codes coming back to haunt you.

SEGR plus a GDE tune, that is the answer.

I have also eliminated the FCV completely, it is unplugged (and broken I think) and I have no codes. The EGR tubes on mine are a little "shorter" from both the exhaust and intake ends. If you have a welder, you can create your own solution right from the parts like I did. Red Silicone RTV makes all the gasket you will need for those tubes.

If you want to REALLY clean the intake, do an EHM or a provent, and get that oily air out of the intake track too.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Here is what we got done today.

remove stock muffler and cat and install magnaflow (I liked the straight pipe but it would have been too much for the person who drives it)

remove egr crossover tube; cut, crimp, weld and reinstall stubs (I know that this is a very field expedient way to do this but rack time is precious and I plan to get rid of it all anyway)

got cel on the way home as expected

observations while working on; the engine and or engine and tranny have been out sometime before I bought the truck, the cac rubber hoses are very soft and need to be replaced, coolant leak at the small rubber lines that go to the egr valve

tomorrow;

remove egr valve and cooler and install stub (plug) on air valve inlet from egr cooler

I see no reason to keep the egr valve or cooler installed if there is no flow and that way I can fix my coolant leak by eliminating the parts that are leaking

when my new cac hoses come in I will remove air valve assembly and clean and decide if I want to make my own intake and see if I can get a tune that deletes the air valve as well or stick with what is there

thank you all for the replies, this is the most knowledgeable website for these little orphan diesels that we have adopted

jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock

To make the engine CPU happy you will probably have to do the SEGR mod. It is looking for an airflow change when it tells the EGR to fire. No change, you get a CEL. SEGR fixes that. It also allows you to delete the intake butterfly if you want.
Again, the CPU looks for an airflow change when it tell the valve to close. No change, you get a fault.

Note that if the CPU does not see both electrically, you get a instant fault = Bad Sensors.
SEGR fixes that.
Good luck and keep us posted.

today's work;

removed egr cooler and valve

cut egr line from cooler to air valve ... crimped and welded (there was a substantial leak at the egr tube to air valve connection and evidence of previous attempt to fix this leak with silicone ...what a mess)

Remove air valve and clean ...this was a filthy caked up mess, big oily boulders (embarrassing for me to say the least as I am a big diesel loudmouth)

The view from the bottom looking up into the intake was very unpleasant and discouraging
BIG CHUNKS OF THE SAME STUFF that was in the air valve I was afraid to touch it so I left it alone and put stuff back together

Installed

Air valve with stub pipe and blade gone reinstalled with new cac hose

water flow for egr looped with 180deg heater hose

new cac hose hot side (turbo to cac)

all of this was done on the rack from the bottom after removing the starter

gasket from air valve to intake was in fair shape and was reused if I had a new one I would have used it

I did very little of the above work myself I was present for all of it and I handed tools and answered the phone but the real work was done by a professional, who is a good friend, who was trained by dodge on this truck ...he was as lost as I was No big deal we know a lot more than we did

total time on rack 16 hours

its the little details that kill you when you make it up as you go along

Seat of the pants impressions; reduced visible smoke, runs a bit cooler, seems to breathe better

200 mile round trip tomorrow we will check the mileage

will the gde tune be able to resolve the cel resulting from above adjustments to the egr and air valve?

jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock

NO. Read my post and Turbo Tim's post. You need an SEGR device to convince the computer that the two problem children are still in your engine and "operating" as the system expects.

The SEGR circuit is the ONLY WAY to eliminate the check engine light from the removals that you have done. I have a similar setup, and no CEL because I have an SEGR.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Looking forward to a report on how your mods worked on the 200 mile run. Sounds like all good improvements. I had a SEGR but never installed it, sold it and went with the GD Eco tune, solved the CEL issue for me. I also have a Provent, the SAMCO hoses. Not much of a mechanic so I try to do all the preventative stuff. I see you indicated a socal location, I am in Pasadena. There are not a lot of CA CRDs so any info you have as to mechanics (to use or avoid), biodiesel sources and the like please post.

I did read your post

I do not understand why I need both

I did similar work on my duramax and did not need a segr device it was all done on the ecm. If the segr device is there to fool the ecm why can I not just change ecm?

I am biased against the segr as I had one of the first, it came as a bunch of tiny parts with no instructions... it is a pretty large leap of faith to build and install something like that... a box with a bunch of wires hanging out is just not my thing

If gdr is unable to eliminate cel then I will go to a tuner that can do it

does anyone know if efi live can be used to tune this ecm

jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2539


Does this mean that your vehicle can't be legally sold in California, and is not eligible for renewal of registration after deleting the EGR?

I can agree that the SEGR looks like a daunting project to build and install, especially if you want to make the install hidden and "factory" looking. The reason you need that however is that the programming in the "nanny-checks" are stronger in the CRD than in your Duramax. A tuner has certain limitations to their product - They have to be able to sell it legally. Something which is undetectable to a government inspection, AND makes it extremely easy for a person to "violate" the decisions of the CARB, is going to be a product that the authorities will not want on the market.

So the vendor (GDE or InMotion) is very limited in what they can actually eliminate from the programming. The checks for the devices are STILL THERE in their programming. The check for a functioning device is the fastest way to create a CEL, but I have personally monitored and recorded the EGR "performance" on the GDE tune - Every time you take your foot completely out of the go-pedal, the EGR "blips open" for a half-second or so. This is GDE's description of a "boost pressure relief" use of the EGR, and is not only pointless... I believe it could still lead to the failure of the EGR device anyway... Throwing a non-function EGR CEL. So you are right back to square one.

I do not know what the specifics are of the InMotion tune, but I do know that because they are selling a product for highway use (Despite any "off road use only" tags on the site) they have to be subject to the oversight of the EPA. Anything that completely defeats the systems cannot be sold for highway use. *Devil's Advocate Mode* I would also contend that because the purchase of an ECM tune is not accompanied by a spare ECM in all cases, and that the replacement of an ECM tune is not a flip-a-switch simple prospect... That a LARGE majority of the tunes sold are used on the highway. So the company cannot legally remove the EGR function from the computer. *Devils' mode off*

What a person allows the computer to THINK is happening within their own car however... That is something that neither the EPA nor the tuners can control. A combination of the SEGR and the tune from GDE are the best way to eliminate any possibility of that CEL lighting up ever again - Because the use of the EGR would be 5% of it's stock usage, and the SEGR would easily let the computer think all is well for that 5%.

I'm sorry if my previous reply seemed snippy, but you didn't say that you did not understand the need for both, you just asked exactly the same question in the same way - Please ask if this still does not make sense to you. I know that it seems like an electrical engineering degree is needed to figure this stuff out sometimes... That might be exactly the way that CARB wants it. Luckily for us, Turbo Tim HAS an EE degree.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

As long as it passes the emissions inspection, both tail pipe and visual, then its good to go.
Having cut and welded shut the EGR pipe may tip off the smog inspecter that part of your
emissions equipment is non-functioning.
But thats assuming the inspector knows what to look for.

If I ever have to remove the EGR valve on my engine, I will install a block off plate between
the EGR valve and intake. That combined with SEGR with ensure that everything looks stock
and functional while keeping the EGR permamently closed.



If you are able to find a tuner that has the ability to disable EGR function through the ECU
let us know. We all wanna find that one.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Please crawl back to the carb thread.

We are actually trying to do some improvements here.

I doubt that you even own a motori kj or this thread would/should cause you great concern for your jeep

jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock

No need to apologize I came here looking for information and you have provided

Please see my last post if you want snippy

I have had to learn a lot about this subject with the 08 dmax... the most important thing is to leave the tuning to the tuners because I understand very little of what is going on... I do understand the mechanical part to some degree so I am not totally useless.. I at least know what parts to take off

As far as tuners and the law go I am not an expert ... however the opinion of my dmax tuner is "I sell a product what you do with said product is your business"

Based on my dmax tuners opinion it is not a problem to do this with the ecm ... my dmax is an 08 with dpf, egr, air valve, grid heater, ect. all of which are in a big pile in my shed along with the same parts from the kj ... all codes are gone and no cel

Until I run into a wall I am going to hold this opinion... I am 99.99 percent sure that an ecm flash wih eliminate all codes

I do not doubt that you and turbotim have put a lot of thought and research into what you are saying ... if my path does not work out you can bet that I will be knocking on your door with money and a 12 pack to have you install my segr


flash7210
that tuner is probably closer than you think


200 mile run... fuel gauge at 3/4 runs like a top... definitely runs cooler seems to be getting better mileage ran 2200rpm most of the way

I had forgotten how twitchy it is to drive and uncomfortable on a long drive ... oh well it is a diesel so I love it


jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock

I could care less if you can't register or sell your CRD in California, but others considering such "improvements" might want to know if there are legal consequences.

PS:
The snotty comment about crawling is fitting coming from someone arrogant enough to think they have a personal exemption from complying with Federal and state laws.

Legally yes. You also couldn't buy them new in Cal. CARB said it killed too many people with the exhaust.

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

350 miles 12.5 gal ... almost 28mpg avg rpm 2200 to 2300

as far as the egr cel either the people on this forum are correct or Kieth is correct

He did note that his tune utilizes the egr for turbo pressure release in a high load to no load situation ... in short it helps reduce turbo bark and helps your turbo live longer ...he also said that either way I would not have codes

I will update when the new ecm is installed

jim

_________________
Hers 05 kj ehm, egr delete, unplugged fuel heater, exhaust improvements
His 96 12 valve 5/12's, 62/65/14, built pump, Hamilton head and cam, fluidampner, high speed floormats
His 91 12 valve stock