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 Post subject: True coolant flush with modified (or original) thermostat
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:54 pm 
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edit: I am going to start another thread on this. I want to include a citric flush and steps for doing this with the original thermostat (or not having to remove modified thermostat). Look for Coolant Flush (round 2).

Now that I have Mark's modified thermostat housing with a removable thermostat, I was thinking about doing an actual coolant flush.
Not just the old coolant out, new coolant in procedure.

The next time I have the coolant drained from the system, I could cut the inlet hose to the heater core and install a Tee.

Then, to do an actual coolant flush:
-engine cold
-turn cabin heat on full (engine not running)
-disconnect the battery
-open the drain valve, drain coolant from expansion tank
-open expansion tank cap, allow time to finish draining (you need to recycle this)
-remove the thermostat from the modified housing and bolt back together without the thermostat
-attach a shut off valve and garden hose to the Tee fitting and flush out the system with low pressure until the water coming out is clear
-turn off the hose (and shut off valve) and wait for the water to drain
-remove the garden hose, shut off valve and replace the Tee cap
-replace the thermostat
-let 1 gallon of distilled water, filled at the expansion tank, flush out the tap water
-close radiator drain and fill with coolant as per factory service manual


Last edited by Squeeto on Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Sounds good. We did basically the same procedure with my old '93 Dodge, minus the distilled water.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:04 pm 
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Prestone makes an inexpensive ($8-10 US) flush kit, see for example http://www.amazon.com/Prestone-AFKIT0-U ... B000CCFY5W I've used the kit on several vehicles including 2 D-250 Cummins trucks with no problems. Install and when it comes time to flush just remove cap on T; attach garden hose with anti-siphon; put disharge fitting into radiator cap hole; with hose running idle engine until water runs clear; remove hose; fill at the radiator and when all anti freeze is in just reinstall cap at T and you are done. No air in system. Should work on our CRDs..I have a couple of kits but have not yet installed one on my CRD or stoutdog's.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:43 pm 
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papaindigo wrote:
... put disharge fitting into radiator cap hole.


I thought, since we don't have the rad cap, we may also be able to flush though the small screw plug at the top of the rad. This way you don't need to remove the thermostat.

I think that it would be better to flush out the bottom of the rad to catch the particle crap but better at the top to fully flush the rad.

Thoughts?

I going out to see if that little plug comes out so the hole can be fitted with a dispense hose.

Also, we probably don't need the anti-siphon. I think this may only be needed for people who flush with the vehicle running? I like the idea of one of those cheap plastic hose shut offs better.


Last edited by Squeeto on Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
I going out to see if that little plug comes out so the hole can be fitted with a dispense hose.


A half turn and a bit and it opens but I can't extract it.
If you try this, do it when the engine is cold.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:34 am 
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On the Prestone kit the anti-siphon is a bit of a pain but it's supposed to keep you from siphoning antifreeze back into your water system via the hose line. The only way that can happen with the engine running is for the vehicle water pump to over pressure the hose pressure and reverse the flow OR if you don't turn the hose on enough, the latter is possible the former is probably not especially if you keep an eye on the discharge and keep the flow going well. That said a shut off valve at the hose noozle is a lot easier that running back to the hose shut off valve.

The point of doing this with the engine running and heater open is this method quickly flushes 100% of the old anti freeze and any debris out of the system.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:56 am 
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papaindigo wrote:
The point of doing this with the engine running and heater open is this method quickly flushes 100% of the old anti freeze and any debris out of the system.


We can't really do a running flush with our trucks. There are enough warnings in the FSM about depressurizing the coolant system while hot and trapping air. If you get the engine hot enough to open the thermostat, you would have to let it cool to cold before you sealed the top.

Maybe attach a hose to the outside sleeve of the top radiator plug and don't worry about the short distance of upper radiator hose. That way everyone could do this, not just those (me, for now :wink: ) who have a modified thermostat?


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
papaindigo wrote:
The point of doing this with the engine running and heater open is this method quickly flushes 100% of the old anti freeze and any debris out of the system.


We can't really do a running flush with our trucks. There are enough warnings in the FSM about depressurizing the coolant system while hot and trapping air. If you get the engine hot enough to open the thermostat, you would have to let it cool to cold before you sealed the top.

Maybe attach a hose to the outside sleeve of the top radiator plug and don't worry about the short distance of upper radiator hose. That way everyone could do this, not just those (me, for now :wink: ) who have a modified thermostat?

You need one of these for a true flush..................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=084yI5CrjDs

I've used(and currently use) both types on all types of vehicles including a CRD.Works great,OEM approved, and is fast.The chemicals used cleans very well but needs to reach 160 degrees to work.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
You need one of these for a true flush..................

$ :!:

Tells me that the flush should take place at the top of rad. I mean that I can flush out the bottom but I should also do so at the top.

I still think that we can do a cold water "home flush". The question is to remove the stat or not.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
You need one of these for a true flush..................

$ :!:

Tells me that the flush should take place at the top of rad. I mean that I can flush out the bottom but I should also do so at the top.

I still think that we can do a cold water "home flush". The question is to remove the stat or not.

Just flushing with water really does nothing,does not remove any of the scale buildup in the system.

As for that machine it it cleans the whole system as the engine is running and circulating the whole time while being cleaned.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:18 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Just flushing with water really does nothing,does not remove any of the scale buildup in the system.


How about adding the chemical descaler to the expansion tank the day before? Drive, heat up engine, de-scale and next day garden hose flush with a cold engine.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Just flushing with water really does nothing,does not remove any of the scale buildup in the system.


How about adding the chemical descaler to the expansion tank the day before? Drive, heat up engine, de-scale and next day garden hose flush with a cold engine.

Only run the chemicals for about 10mins at full operating temps,any longer can cause damage.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:19 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Squeeto wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Just flushing with water really does nothing,does not remove any of the scale buildup in the system.


How about adding the chemical descaler to the expansion tank the day before? Drive, heat up engine, de-scale and next day garden hose flush with a cold engine.

Only run the chemicals for about 10mins at full operating temps,any longer can cause damage.


Do you know if the coolant constantly flows through the expansion tank or does the system draw it as needed? I mean that adding a descaler to the expansion tank would be useless if it didn't get into the system. Another reason I ask is because I usually check specific gravity from the expansion tank; this would also be pointless if this is "dead" coolant.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:23 pm 
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[quote="Squeeto]Do you know if the coolant constantly flows through the expansion tank or does the system draw it as needed? I mean that adding a descaler to the expansion tank would be useless if it didn't get into the system. Another reason I ask is because I usually check specific gravity from the expansion tank; this would also be pointless if this is "dead" coolant.[/quote]



If the "radiator cap" is on the expansion tank then yes it get's circulated pretty fast when the t-stat is open.It's a closed system and coolant just does not sit in any one place for very long,it's all moving when the t-stat is open.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:48 pm 
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Thank you tjkj2002. Very helpful.

I like the idea of doing this myself. The last Jeep dealer mechanic gave me 11 scratches and one dent. The owner of the dealership said that damage done in the service shop parking lot is not his responsibility.

"Oh crap! We set another Jeep on fire! Quick, push it out to the parking lot."

___________

So if the descaler shouldn't be left anywhere, it is probably a good idea to remove the t'stat.

Now how to remove that upper plug.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:04 pm 
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I gave the upper plug another try.
Mine is quite tight but it does pull out; nothing broke.

I have a section of 1/2 inch low pressure hydraulic line (3/4 inch outside diameter) that fits the plug hole perfectly too.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Image

This is after draining the coolant. Still so pink!

The second Tee at the top of my female to female hose is for later. I thought that I might try a hot flush with sodium citrate (like MB does) and this would be a good place to remove air from my garden hose before I started flushing with water.


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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Looks like it's working pretty well... Looks almost exactly like it did when we flushed the coolant on my D-250.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:30 pm 
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This might sound like a stupid question but why should a properly maintained cooling system have scale and need flushed :?: A 05 CRD is just now 5 years old and that's when the coolant should be replaced. My 06 was built in January 06 so I completly drained and refilled when I put my new oem thermostat in 2 weeks ago. It took exactly what the book calls for so I know all the old was drained out. I've more or less always changed the coolant as called for and the only radiator I ever had clogged ws on the outside by bugs :jester:
VW calls for a 10 year change on the 99 jetta (a4) TDI that that I bought new and my son has now. We drained and refilled it when we changed the timing belt and water pump for the second time and it's never overheated :BANANA:

Don't they just monitor the chemistry of the antifreeze on over the road trucks and adjust it as necessary?

Does not scale come from the water mixed with the coolant and isn't that why distilled water is called for? It's $1.39 at my local CVS drug store.

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 Post subject: Re: True coolant flush with modified thermostat
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:47 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
This might sound like a stupid question but why should a properly maintained cooling system have scale and need flushed :?: A 05 CRD is just now 5 years old and that's when the coolant should be replaced. My 06 was built in January 06 so I completly drained and refilled when I put my new oem thermostat in 2 weeks ago. It took exactly what the book calls for so I know all the old was drained out. I've more or less always changed the coolant as called for and the only radiator I ever had clogged ws on the outside by bugs :jester:
VW calls for a 10 year change on the 99 jetta (a4) TDI that that I bought new and my son has now. We drained and refilled it when we changed the timing belt and water pump for the second time and it's never overheated :BANANA:

Don't they just monitor the chemistry of the antifreeze on over the road trucks and adjust it as necessary?

Does not scale come from the water mixed with the coolant and isn't that why distilled water is called for? It's $1.39 at my local CVS drug store.


I agree. I have always changed my coolant every 5 years (the wife's Audi, every 3). Wow, 10 years for VW? And I only use distilled water for a 50% mix. So far no scale that I am aware of.

But others swear by flushing. Heater cores are problematic for scaling. It is nice to flush the oils out before adding new coolant. Maybe someone here can add insight to this.

I just thought that this was a cheap mod, can't hurt to fully flush out the system and I didn't see anyone on the forum doing it yet so I am posting what I do.


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