| LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/ |
|
| de-carbon procedure?? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56472 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | dieseldoesit [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | de-carbon procedure?? |
So I took my liberty in for some warranty work. Seems the EGR needs to be replaced, good thing I bought the extra warranty for the thing. Anyways, they said they can do a de-carbon procedure on the intake for like 125 bucks. I haven't heard about this before, what do you guys think? I say no, and put the money towards a tune or something. Or more diesel, but I am curious what others with more information / knowledge might think. |
|
| Author: | dkenny [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
I've never heard of it before? I can say the intake will be dirty..do they provide details on the de-carb procedure? does it require removing the intake and washing? the hoses? the FCV? put another way everything between the air filter and the intake valves? if not..I would skeptical on bang for the buck. I would suggest looking into changing the CCV setup..it needs a filter between it and the intake..or just not back in to the intake.. then something to cripple the function of the EGR..my thoughts as to why..diesels make soot..soot is abrasive. this is feed back into the air intake post filter..To me this will shorten the engine life..Very bad..now if it was prefilter. not so bad. then they just screwed up and used a electric solenoid instead of vacuum. why?? we're all wondering that question. there is a vacuum pump already. soon I'll be adding a SEGR to my wife's jeep. I've clean the EGR twice so far and its got just under 60k. about the last 10k are with the CCV open to air and draining on the ground. intake side plugged. -dkenny |
|
| Author: | dieseldoesit [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
dkenny wrote: I've never heard of it before? I can say the intake will be dirty..do they provide details on the de-carb procedure? does it require removing the intake and washing? the hoses? the FCV? put another way everything between the air filter and the intake valves? if not..I would skeptical on bang for the buck. not sure, they said that while the egr was off, that it was easier to do it. I am guessing they would just spray some stuff in there and call it good to go, especially since they were thinking of charging me 150 bucks to change the fuel filter... ha ha ha. |
|
| Author: | CATCRD [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
I would skip it. Those magic in a can services have a really low bang for the buck, and can cause more problems than they fix. They just try to sell it to everyone who comes through, to make a quick buck. If they are offering to take the cylinder head off and hot tank it for $150 I would do it. 
|
|
| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
CATCRD wrote: I would skip it. Those magic in a can services have a really low bang for the buck, and can cause more problems than they fix. They just try to sell it to everyone who comes through, to make a quick buck. If they are offering to take the cylinder head off and hot tank it for $150 I would do it. Actually those fuel induction(de-carboning) works if done right and with the correct chemicals(not seafoam,to harsh).They are not a scam and with dry intakes(deisels and multi-port FI gas) carbon buildup in the intake is a major issue and a fuel induction service cleans all that out safely and will not harm anything besides fouling spark plugs if there worn past there useable life. Now with a deisel you can do it cheaper with some water/meth injection to break up that carbon. |
|
| Author: | CATCRD [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
I have seen into the cylinder head of a CRD and seen the black cake in there. No spray of anything is going to get it out without causing major damage downstream. Skip it. |
|
| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
CATCRD wrote: I have seen into the cylinder head of a CRD and seen the black cake in there. No spray of anything is going to get it out without causing major damage downstream. Skip it. There are proven methods that are safe to use.The carbon will come off,not all at once,and exit the tail pipe in a big cloud of smoke. |
|
| Author: | Drewd [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
If it involves spraying combustible materials into the intake while the engine is running, I'd look elsewhere. The damage from a runaway occuring is not something I'd risk nor the risk of a chunk of carbon/sludge catching a valve. If our intake is carboned up, its probably a thick carbon like sludge similar to a thick nasty shoepolish (EGR gases mixing with oily blowby from CCV system), the only way to clean it is by pulling the intake and using chemicals and lots of scrubbing and "elbow grease". |
|
| Author: | flman [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
I think the OP should have the service done, then report back and let us all know how it worked 
|
|
| Author: | warp2diesel [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
Before Injector cleaners like Techron came along, BMW & MB had their techs pull the intake and blast the intake port in the cylinder head with walnut shells to clean out the intake carbon deposits. Time will tell if cleaning out the EGR related intake sludge with Snake Oil on diesels will work or not with out doing any damage. Hopefully the techs with some "Gear Head Common Sense" will figure out a way to make it work. Best plan I see is to eliminate the operation of the EGR, next best is to greatly reduce the EGR operation. With all of the Junk Science Statist produced Legislation, DEF (urine with out the salt peed into the exhaust) is looking like a better option all the time to reduce the Boogieman gas, Nitrous Oxide of which 6.9 times more is produced by Agriculture than all mobile transportation. After all, Most Brides are too stupid to figure out they can't wear black underwear under a White Wedding Dress, after all Statists feel we need more Restrictive Legislation  
|
|
| Author: | CATCRD [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
This is how thick it was in my intake tube. Think of how much more there is in the manifold/cylinder head. I wouldn't want all that to go through my cylinders, turbo, and possibly clog the cat. I guarantee there's more in your intake if you haven't done the ORM or EHM in the first year you owned it. 
|
|
| Author: | AJN [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
Last weekend I picked up an 05 CRD with about 86k. I immediately had the oil + filter and air cleaner changed, along with a full 4 wheel brake service and alignment. It seems to run pretty strong - can easily chirp the tires - but blows way too much smoke too early into the throttle. Even in slow traffic where I'm feathering the throttle it still blows out smoke - In fact so much of it that drivers unlucky enough to be stuck behind me get pretty upset, and I'm concerned that I will soon be ticketed. The drive home averaged 70-80mph and burned about 3 tanks of diesel over 1400+ miles, so no obvious problems with engine efficiency. Last night I cleaned out the MAP, which was fully clogged with dry soot. Despite cleaning it out I can still see a trail of black exhaust and a line of angry drivers behind me. Service records from about 6-8 months ago indicate the dealer replaced the turbo, ECU, fuel filter system, the intercooler hoses and cleaned out the intercooler. So maybe the oil seal in the turbo blew and threw oil inside the intake track. I don't know, just guessing at this. Also the cruise control doesn't work - which I knew about from the inspection, but I don't normally use it, so not a big deal to me. I'll take it to the local Jeep dealer and have them check the programming. The cruise light in the dashboard does not light and all the fuses checked out. I understand these vehicles use a fly-by-wire throttle system from the ECU that also manages cruise control functions, which leads me to believe when they replaced it they forgot to toggle the cruise option. Next on my list of to-do include revised crankcase ventilation, SEGR to address recycled soot, replace the fuel filter, Replace current exhaust with one that is less restrictive. So with the brief history, what can I do to get rid of the soot build-up and ongoing "gross polluter" behavior of this CDR? I'm thinking of using water injection to help break things up, but I don't know their real-life performance, nor their long term impact on the engine. And from the previous posts there doesn't appear to be consensus. What should I look at to address too much smoke? Sorry for highjacking this thread with an overly long post. |
|
| Author: | Drewd [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
What color is the smoke? I hope I didn't mix these up: 1. Blue smoke: burning motor oil 2. Black smoke: overfueling (caused by too much fuel, not enough air, not enough boost, airintake restriction. I'd check the intake...its possible it is partially clogged....very common problem in other diesels I've driven (TDIs). 3. Coolant burns a different color too but not sure if it is white or not. |
|
| Author: | dieseldoesit [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
Drewd wrote: What color is the smoke? I hope I didn't mix these up: 1. Blue smoke: burning motor oil 2. Black smoke: overfueling (caused by too much fuel, not enough air, not enough boost, airintake restriction. I'd check the intake...its possible it is partially clogged....very common problem in other diesels I've driven (TDIs). 3. Coolant burns a different color too but not sure if it is white or not. I believe that is correct. |
|
| Author: | AJN [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
Black soot smoke. No other coloration that I can see - not blue as oil, or white as in coolant. I checked fluids at each fill-up during the 1400 mile trek and did not notice any perceptible drop in levels. So I'm inclined to go with Drewd's comment that it's over fueling from clogged intake system as evidenced from the amount of crud I cleaned off the MAP. What's the best way to clear out the intake system without disassembling things, or is that my best/only choice? Am I wasting my time with considering water injection? Thanks, AJ |
|
| Author: | GreenDieselEngineering [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
AJ, Were you considering water injection to clean out the manifold or for combustion? In either case it is most likely a waste of time for a good cost/benefit ratio. Since you are only 14k from a timing belt change, you could pull the intake at that time for a thorough cleaning. Does the smoke dissipate if the mass air flow sensor (on top of airbox) is unplugged? This will set a check engine light, but will turn off after plugging back in and 3 drive cycles. You can also just remove the intake elbow, intake throttle and steel EGR tube from valve to intake manifold. Cleaning these parts and whatever can be reached inside the intake manifold will help in the short term. Sprays in the intake that loosen the gunk up, and may put a hurting on the valves, rings, cylinder wall, etc. Big soot chunks that go into the chamber will not burn well and can wedge in the gap between the piston, compression ring and cylinder wall. The soot is very abrasive and can only cause potential problems. Or it may go harmlessly through... With a DRB the cruise control can be reset in about 30 seconds...a good dealer would do this for free. Have fun with the new ride! |
|
| Author: | AJN [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
Immediately it's in consideration of cleaning out the intake, but longer term it's based on suggestions that it improves performance and keeps engine clean. But if it's not measurable or suggested due to potential problems, I'd just as well avoid it. I haven't unplugged the MAS as I am taking to the dealer for the cruise control and don't want to give them an excuse to raise a red flag over unrelated matters. I'll try to take it in later today and gauge how friendly they are about it. This should indicate whether they are customer friendly, or if I should avoid them like the plague. Thanks GDE, so far I'm having a blast with this new Italian Tractor!! The exhaust is next item on the list. I've got your ECU upgrades on my wish list after the remainder of the extended warranty expires and I know I won't be taking to the dealer for ECU changes. |
|
| Author: | flman [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
AJN wrote: Immediately it's in consideration of cleaning out the intake, but longer term it's based on suggestions that it improves performance and keeps engine clean. But if it's not measurable or suggested due to potential problems, I'd just as well avoid it. I haven't unplugged the MAS as I am taking to the dealer for the cruise control and don't want to give them an excuse to raise a red flag over unrelated matters. I'll try to take it in later today and gauge how friendly they are about it. This should indicate whether they are customer friendly, or if I should avoid them like the plague. Thanks GDE, so far I'm having a blast with this new Italian Tractor!! The exhaust is next item on the list. I've got your ECU upgrades on my wish list after the remainder of the extended warranty expires and I know I won't be taking to the dealer for ECU changes. If you have a warranty, get the hot tune and trash the torque converter so they can replace it with a Euro. GDEs tune is undetectable any ways, so no worry with the warranty. |
|
| Author: | dieseldoesit [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
flman wrote: If you have a warranty, get the hot tune and trash the torque converter so they can replace it with a Euro. GDEs tune is undetectable any ways, so no worry with the warranty. You don't think the techs would be able to tell that the vehicle is much more powerful then normal??
|
|
| Author: | AJN [ Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: de-carbon procedure?? |
Or my luck they would reflash the ECU and I'd have to get the hot tune reloaded again... |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|