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So, my turbo is toast - Help!
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Author:  shelbydz [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  So, my turbo is toast - Help!
As you can see from these pics, the blades on my turbo are chipped. This was the grinding/whirring sound I heard from my CRD (second pic is a bit of blade I found in the air inlet line. It was lodged into the rubber). The shaft of the turbo also moves quite a bit and the outside of the unit is covered in oil.

:banghead:

http://picasaweb.google.com/109199982702464952248/CarStuff?feat=directlink

The question of the day: what causes this kind of failure? I would imagine low oil pressure. However, my low oil light never came on, I changed my oil every 6,000 miles. I've been using 0/40 synthetic (this is what I was told to use on another Jeep forum).

That being said, what all do I need to replace when I swap out the turbo. I know that on my 2.2l turbo dodge cars, you should replace the oil lines to the turbo. Is that necessary here too? Anything else? I'm pretty sure I need to pull out the intercooler and have it washed/tanked.

Any other thoughts?

thx!
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
shelbydz wrote:
The question of the day: what causes this kind of failure?

thx!


Could be an overheated turbo.
Could be poor turbo cool-down procedures.

How many miles are you at?

Definitely gonna have to clean the turbo hoses and intercooler to get all the metal chunks out.
Gonna want to change the oil immediately and do frequent oil changes to flush any residual
glitter out of the crankcase.

I would also recommend switching to an oil specifically for turbo diesel engines.
I don't think that M-1 0w-40 really has what it takes for turbo diesel use.
Author:  flash7210 [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
BTW this would seem to be the third turbo failure here on LOST.
There may be more but this is all I know of.
Author:  geordi [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
Pulling the intercooler is your decision, but I had a catastrophic turbo failure and didn't... And have not had any problems with the intercooler. You are risking a very-difficult-to-replace part if you hurt it on the removal.

As far as the lines, also a no. You only need to replace the turbo. HOWEVER - You CANNOT TRUST the oil pressure idiot light to EVER come on. The sender is located at the OUTLET of the oil filter, on the bottom of the engine. As such, it gets the full flow of every drop of oil that leaves the filter... Directly after the pump. This is the WORST possible location for that sensor. As long as there is at least 1 quart of oil in the engine (allowing that one quart for the filter itself) then the sensor will have oil being pushed towards it... And no place else in the engine.

See the problem? I lost my engine right after a catastrophic turbo failure, because the turbo and the #1 cylinder are directly connected in the oil line. If your turbo was leaking the oil after the bearing failed, then you may have already had an oil starvation issue in the #1 cylinder. On my engine, it caused the crank bearings to spin and disintegrate, the piston came apart, and the rod inverted somehow - Punching out the oil pan.

I REALLY hope this hasn't happened in your case. How long was the engine operating after you knew the turbo had failed? Was it leaking oil?

Mobil 1 0W-40 IS the oil specified by Jeep - PROVIDED that it is the "Turbo Diesel Truck and SUV" or "Delvac 1" brands. Look on the back for the "API Service Grade" circle, and the indicator there should be a CH-4 or better. (CI or CJ are both better than CH or CH-4) Most "gasoline" oils, including Mobil 1 full synth are only CF grade for diesel.
Author:  SPN-87 [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
Looks as overheated turbo.
Do you have turbotimer ? If no - did you follow service manual ( page 11-14 EXHAUST SYSTEM: TURBOCHARGER "COOL DOWN" CHART ) ?
Author:  dkenny [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
I hope this isn't considered OT..
but at the moment I think we need 2 gauges added.
1. boost..a bad MAP or improper cleaning might lead to an over boost on the turbo..
2. oil pressure at the junction of turbo and #1 cylinder..is this possible?

so far my wife jeep is running fine since its 60k changes..I do need to recheck the tranny level..she seems to have more the TC lockup problem frequency but not as bad..as in it does stall the engine..hum :?

for the pits in the blades??
have to done an ehm mod..did you close the side to the intake?

---dinner ready...brb..

-dkenny
Author:  geordi [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
I'm working on an idea for the oil pressure gauge, I want to tap the actual line that feeds the turbo. If the oil pressure drops there... Shut the engine off!
Author:  cerich [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
geordi wrote:
Mobil 1 0W-40 IS the oil specified by Jeep - PROVIDED that it is the "Turbo Diesel Truck and SUV" or "Delvac 1" brands. Look on the back for the "API Service Grade" circle, and the indicator there should be a CH-4 or better. (CI or CJ are both better than CH or CH-4) Most "gasoline" oils, including Mobil 1 full synth are only CF grade for diesel.


Mobil 1 0w40 Turbo Diesel Truck and SUV wasn't even on the market when the CRD was introduced by DC....
Author:  CATCRD [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
cerich wrote:
geordi wrote:
Mobil 1 0W-40 IS the oil specified by Jeep - PROVIDED that it is the "Turbo Diesel Truck and SUV" or "Delvac 1" brands. Look on the back for the "API Service Grade" circle, and the indicator there should be a CH-4 or better. (CI or CJ are both better than CH or CH-4) Most "gasoline" oils, including Mobil 1 full synth are only CF grade for diesel.


Mobil 1 0w40 Turbo Diesel Truck and SUV wasn't even on the market when the CRD was introduced by DC....


It still doesn't exist. TDT is a 5W-40. Look for CI-4 or CJ and you'll be fine.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
Yes it was available. The marketing and that specific name may not have been, but the oil itself has been. It was in the Mobil 1 Delvac Synthetic silver bottles. Same stuff as in the "Turbo Diesel Truck and SUV" that is now offered in 1 quart portions. The Delvac was available (at least the only size I ever saw) in gallon jugs for about $24. It was and still is an approved oil for our CRD motor in either the 0w40 or 5w40 grade, depending on the area of the country.

If TDT isn't offered in the 0w40 grade, that is new on me. I haven't looked for it specifically, because the 5w40 is also an approved grade, and it is impossible to get even Delvac from the truckstops around here in the south in 0w40 - I guess they don't carry it because they don't believe it gets cold enough.
Author:  shelbydz [ Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
My CRD didn't come with a manual (I checked the hidden slot inside the glove box), but for cooling down, I typically let it idle for about 15 - 30 seconds. Is there an online copy of the manual that I can reference?

I'm pretty sure that the 0/40w oil is the wrong grade. I'll make sure I find the right stuff.

I'm not too worried about taking out the intercooler, I've done similar stuff on other cars before. I'd rather eliminate any chance of metal shards getting back into my system (:

I did find a used turbo for the Liberty at :
http://usedturbos.net/Catalog/Diesel-Turbos/Garrett-GT2056VNT-Jeep-Cherokee-VW-TDI-Upgrade.html?keyword=liberty

Has any one ordered from these guys before? I don't think I can drop $800 on a new one right now.

Thanks for all the help guys, I'll keep you posted.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
shelbydz
See Section 11 page 17 in the FSM.

If you don't have a copy you need to read this post.
"Sam's noob Guide" :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207
Author:  shelbydz [ Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
awesome. I had read the first part of that post when I first joined LOST. Didn't see the link to the FSMs though. Thanks!
Author:  Joe Romas [ Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
[quote="shelbydz"]awesome. I had read the first part of that post when I first joined LOST./quote]

Your miles ahead of the average noob that thinks it does not apply to them :BANANA: :-)r :SOMBRERO:

It should be required reading before joining LOST :ROTFL:

Sam put a lot of time and good info into that post :BINGO:
Author:  shelbydz [ Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
Joe Romas wrote:
Your miles ahead of the average noob that thinks it does not apply to them :BANANA: :-)r :SOMBRERO:

It should be required reading before joining LOST :ROTFL:

Sam put a lot of time and good info into that post :BINGO:


Thanks :mrgreen: I have quite a bit of car experience (turbo experience too), but none with diesel. This forum is a huge help.
Author:  racertracer [ Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
geordi wrote:
I'm working on an idea for the oil pressure gauge, I want to tap the actual line that feeds the turbo. If the oil pressure drops there... Shut the engine off!


Good luck with this MOD Geordi, this is definately what the CRD needs. ASAP.
Author:  geordi [ Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
Oh, I know. I'm nervous as all get-out about this winter and the performance of the oil / turbo, as this is the environment that killed it 2 years ago. I do NOT want to ever have that happen again.

Right now, I have 3 big projects in the way - Audio post production on a movie that I need to do (deadline in about 12 days) I have my old 97 Grand Cherokee that needs a new fuel pump and to finish swapping the interior seats (changing from leather to velour, re-padding the front seats in the process) and I have to start collecting the parts for the timing belt - I'm at 98k right now.

*sigh* At least I'm not working, so I should have lots of time to do this, right? Hah... I spent today re-building one of my operating systems so I could work on the movie, and I feel like I'm getting sick to boot. Joys.

This project WILL be done soon however. I will not let the CRD get close to actual winter weather (February) here unless I have that gauge installed. Either that, or it will be plugged into the block heater most of the time (on a timer) when it isn't moving.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
shelbydz wrote:
As you can see from these pics, the blades on my turbo are chipped. This was the grinding/whirring sound I heard from my CRD (second pic is a bit of blade I found in the air inlet line. It was lodged into the rubber). The shaft of the turbo also moves quite a bit and the outside of the unit is covered in oil.

:banghead:

http://picasaweb.google.com/109199982702464952248/CarStuff?feat=directlink


Been there, done that:

Image

I'm guessing in your case it was hot shut-downs that caused it, super hot oil gets into the turbo and cooks the seals and bearings, leads to premature wear, bearing wears, turbo shaft moves, impacts housing, and there ya go. In my case it was caused by some sort of debris falling into the turbo inlet - or at least thats all I can figure, still no shaft play, I've kept that turbo around for years under the thought I would just replace the compressor wheel.
Author:  shelbydz [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
Sir Sam wrote:

Been there, done that:

I'm guessing in your case it was hot shut-downs that caused it, super hot oil gets into the turbo and cooks the seals and bearings, leads to premature wear, bearing wears, turbo shaft moves, impacts housing, and there ya go. In my case it was caused by some sort of debris falling into the turbo inlet - or at least thats all I can figure, still no shaft play, I've kept that turbo around for years under the thought I would just replace the compressor wheel.


I hope that's all it was. I'm hoping I can replace the turbo next weekend. Maybe the wife will get me a turbo timer for Christmas :ROTFL:
Author:  dgeist [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, my turbo is toast - Help!
racertracer wrote:
geordi wrote:
I'm working on an idea for the oil pressure gauge, I want to tap the actual line that feeds the turbo. If the oil pressure drops there... Shut the engine off!


Good luck with this MOD Geordi, this is definately what the CRD needs. ASAP.


X2
:POPCORN:
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