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New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Install
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Author:  bebey [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Install
Well, I've finally got it completed and 'most' of the kinks worked out.

I had JeepMasters (I highly recommend them) in Austin TX install the Rockfather Deluxe lift (includes the OME front and rear and the strong control arms). It now measures 22" from center of hub to top of the fender. I was able to fit the new Goodyear MTR 245/75/16 under it with no problem. (Minor trimming of plastic but no pinch weld mod needed). In addition, I got the Detours Backbone and a Road Shock 10k winch.

Minor issues encountered:
1. Squeaks, front and rear. Rears were fairly easily fixed by greasing well. Fronts are still squeaking. I suspect the sway bar and plan to loosen while vehicle is on the ground, and silicone spray the bushings. Failing that, possibly installing zergs.

2. Alignment issues: I got the heavy duty front springs for the CRD and a winch. I didn't do the winch install at first and so it was not possible to get the alignment very close. I have since installed the winch which helped quite a bit. It is still not completely in spec and I'm a bit worried, but I've been told it should settle a bit. (I only have about 500 miles on it). Just had Firestone do an alignment. They said they were only charging me for a toe alignment as they could not get Caster and Camber into spec. They also said it might settle some with some miles and to rotate frequently. (I REALLY hope it settles with time and miles. They said my toe alignment is good, but the Caster is off enough to cause some premature wear if I don't rotate often).

3. "Minor" rubbing at full lock on the large tread blocks of the MTRs, but not even enough to worry about.

General impressions:
1. MUCH better ride than stock. Eats up the bumps effortless. And bonus: I no longer bottom out on speed bumps. [snickering]
2. Even though it sits much higher, it seems much more stable including at highway speeds. More surefooted, and more pleasurable to drive. The girlfriend agrees and thinks it feels more stable even though it sits higher.
3. GREAT improvement off-road. It doesn't compete with my old Rubicon on 33s and with lockers, but I bet after I add lockers, it will do very well. And it's MUCH better on the highway than my Rubicon could ever hope to be.
4. Detours Backbone is AWESOME, looks great, and far less expensive than a ARB bumper.
5. Road Shock 10k winch (Harbor Freight). Slow but I'm confident it will do just fine although I haven't really used it yet.
6. Goodyear MTRs: Had the old style MTRs on my Rubicon and then upgraded to the 33 MTRs later. I "love" these new ones. Heavy yes, fairly noisey from 15-45mph, but quite down to some extent after 45mph. Great in rain, off-road, etc.
7. Turbo Diesel emblems - Added 20lbs torque

Images:
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Author:  DirtyKK [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
Looking good 8)
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
Quote:
2. Alignment issues: I got the heavy duty front springs for the CRD and a winch. I didn't do the winch install at first and so it was not possible to get the alignment very close. I have since installed the winch which helped quite a bit. It is still not completely in spec and I'm a bit worried, but I've been told it should settle a bit. (I only have about 500 miles on it). Just had Firestone do an alignment. They said they were only charging me for a toe alignment as they could not get Caster and Camber into spec. They also said it might settle some with some miles and to rotate frequently. (I REALLY hope it settles with time and miles. They said my toe alignment is good, but the Caster is off enough to cause some premature wear if I don't rotate often).

JBA's UCA's will help here but you still can get close enough into specs with the OE UCA's.Caster will not cause any tire wear,camber and toe is what causes tire wear.Caster can cause a pull,unstable feeling at high speeds,and heavy steering at low speeds.As long as the front caster is between 2-4 degrees and no more then .5 degrees from side to side you are good.You always sacrifice caster for camber in the setup for how they are adjusted on a KJ.

When I still had IFS I was sitting at 23.5" from center of hub to flare and my caster/camber was dead center in the spec ranges with JBA's.
Author:  bebey [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
[/quote]JBA's UCA's will help here but you still can get close enough into specs with the OE UCA's.Caster will not cause any tire wear,camber and toe is what causes tire wear.Caster can cause a pull,unstable feeling at high speeds,and heavy steering at low speeds.As long as the front caster is between 2-4 degrees and no more then .5 degrees from side to side you are good.You always sacrifice caster for camber in the setup for how they are adjusted on a KJ.

When I still had IFS I was sitting at 23.5" from center of hub to flare and my caster/camber was dead center in the spec ranges with JBA's.[/quote]

Oops, I meant to say that my Camber is off ( I need to get the spec sheet but I think it was almost a degree off on one side, and half a degree on the other, but not certain.)

Thanks for the feedback on the JBAs. I will go lookup what those are, but isn't that what was replaced when I had these installed? http://www.rocky-road.com/kjarm.html (Sorry for my ignorance, still learning and don't know much about the libby yet.)
Author:  DirtyKK [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
bebey wrote:
Thanks for the feedback on the JBAs. I will go lookup what those are, but isn't that what was replaced when I had these installed? http://www.rocky-road.com/kjarm.html (Sorry for my ignorance, still learning and don't know much about the libby yet.)


yep
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
bebey wrote:
Oops, I meant to say that my Camber is off ( I need to get the spec sheet but I think it was almost a degree off on one side, and half a degree on the other, but not certain.)

Thanks for the feedback on the JBAs. I will go lookup what those are, but isn't that what was replaced when I had these installed? http://www.rocky-road.com/kjarm.html (Sorry for my ignorance, still learning and don't know much about the libby yet.)
Yeah but those are cheap knock offs and most likely is the cause for your front sqeaking and one other had severe alignment issues with those junk arms installed.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
I'd always heard the biggest knock on Rocky-Road was the customer service - but if you actually got the parts most of them worked reasonably well (except for the OTT )

and the upper arms should correct the alignment issues - it may have to settle in


Looks Good bebey.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
After going to 21" from center of hub to fender... I got an alignment. I was very dis-satisfied with the feel of the steering post-alignment.

I was actually hoping to drop my front end about .5" so that I could get it realigned and bring the positive steering feel back to the Jeep. But the Emu springs actually lifted me more! Now I'm at 22" like you... and I'm very afraid of getting another alignment because I don't want my steering to get even worse. It's very "touchy" and sensitive now. You can see where they pushed the A-arms inward a LOT to align it, and my wheels even visually look like they are sitting farther forward in the wheel wells. Just generally not happy.....

Also, I now have a loud clunk when I go over railroad tracks, etc. that wasn't there before. You can tell the struts are topping out. I do like having the Emus... I really do. But so far I cannot say that the ride quality and front end geometry was worth it.
Author:  bebey [ Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
LibertyCRD wrote:
After going to 21" from center of hub to fender... I got an alignment. I was very dis-satisfied with the feel of the steering post-alignment.

I was actually hoping to drop my front end about .5" so that I could get it realigned and bring the positive steering feel back to the Jeep. But the Emu springs actually lifted me more! Now I'm at 22" like you... and I'm very afraid of getting another alignment because I don't want my steering to get even worse. It's very "touchy" and sensitive now. You can see where they pushed the A-arms inward a LOT to align it, and my wheels even visually look like they are sitting farther forward in the wheel wells. Just generally not happy.....

Also, I now have a loud clunk when I go over railroad tracks, etc. that wasn't there before. You can tell the struts are topping out. I do like having the Emus... I really do. But so far I cannot say that the ride quality and front end geometry was worth it.


Yikes! I don't have any problems like that at all thankfully, and my steering actually feels great. There is another lost member here that has a lifted 2005 CRD, and he said he liked the feel of my steering much better than his. (I read something that if you have limited slip lockers and have it in full-time 4 wheel drive that it causes heavy steering. I meant to ask him about that.) But mine is crisp, nimble, and very much in control.

That being said, if it doesn't settle in after a while, and if it wears heavily, I will definitely be considering changing the control arms (which will piss me off to no end) but I will hold my judgment for the moment. I hope you get your steering issues resolved!
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
LibertyCRD wrote:
After going to 21" from center of hub to fender... I got an alignment. I was very dis-satisfied with the feel of the steering post-alignment.

I was actually hoping to drop my front end about .5" so that I could get it realigned and bring the positive steering feel back to the Jeep. But the Emu springs actually lifted me more! Now I'm at 22" like you... and I'm very afraid of getting another alignment because I don't want my steering to get even worse. It's very "touchy" and sensitive now. You can see where they pushed the A-arms inward a LOT to align it, and my wheels even visually look like they are sitting farther forward in the wheel wells. Just generally not happy.....

Also, I now have a loud clunk when I go over railroad tracks, etc. that wasn't there before. You can tell the struts are topping out. I do like having the Emus... I really do. But so far I cannot say that the ride quality and front end geometry was worth it.

Gee and before you had nothing but praise now your hating it,going to make up your mind?

Oh and it's impossible for the wheels to move forward/backwards in the wheel well unless something is bent,you can move them up/down and in/out but no forward/backwards.

Your clunk is either the front swaybar links are loose(must be extremely tight) or the top shock nut is loose.If you would get the extended bumpstops it would cure any "bottoming out" issues you have,they are a must no matter what anyone says.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
tjkj2002 wrote:
LibertyCRD wrote:
After going to 21" from center of hub to fender... I got an alignment. I was very dis-satisfied with the feel of the steering post-alignment.

I was actually hoping to drop my front end about .5" so that I could get it realigned and bring the positive steering feel back to the Jeep. But the Emu springs actually lifted me more! Now I'm at 22" like you... and I'm very afraid of getting another alignment because I don't want my steering to get even worse. It's very "touchy" and sensitive now. You can see where they pushed the A-arms inward a LOT to align it, and my wheels even visually look like they are sitting farther forward in the wheel wells. Just generally not happy.....

Also, I now have a loud clunk when I go over railroad tracks, etc. that wasn't there before. You can tell the struts are topping out. I do like having the Emus... I really do. But so far I cannot say that the ride quality and front end geometry was worth it.

Gee and before you had nothing but praise now your hating it,going to make up your mind?

Oh and it's impossible for the wheels to move forward/backwards in the wheel well unless something is bent,you can move them up/down and in/out but no forward/backwards.

Your clunk is either the front swaybar links are loose(must be extremely tight) or the top shock nut is loose.If you would get the extended bumpstops it would cure any "bottoming out" issues you have,they are a must no matter what anyone says.



Maybe it's because at first I had 20 miles on it. And now I've gotten to drive the Jeep a lot of places with it on. Again... I do like the Emus and I will be keeping them. However, they have not been the savior of my front suspension that others seem to think they are. I have found some places on my daily routine where they are more harsh than the OEM springs/Daystar setup I had before. Also, my CV joints are at a steeper angle now and my ball joints are too. I spent $400 on the front suspension alone, and what do I have to show for it? Most of the time the ride isn't harsh...the harshness comes from the struts being topped out over bumps.

YES... the wheels can and do move forward in the wheel well. Have you ever aligned one of these? The front mounting bolt on the lower A-arm moves left to right...which pulls the front wheels forward or backward. Any lifted KJ is going to have the wheels sitting farther forward than a non-lifted KJ. I'm just not happy with how FAR they went.. I don't know if it's truly necessary or if they just screwed it up. But either way, the steering feels "off center" to me and I just don't like it. They did it on a brand new Hunter machine.

Nothing is loose. We tightened and retightened everything with an air gun attached to a big dog compressor I can assure you. The clunk and noise is from two things: A) struts topping out because of too much lift from the Emus alone and B) springs hitting the A-arms, again because of too much lift with stock parts.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Rockfather Deluxe Lift, Detours Backbone/ Winch Inst
LibertyCRD wrote:
Nothing is loose. We tightened and retightened everything with an air gun attached to a big dog compressor I can assure you. The clunk and noise is from two things: A) struts topping out because of too much lift from the Emus alone and B) springs hitting the A-arms, again because of too much lift with stock parts.

I've aligned more KJ's then I care to count,I know how the front wheels move.

Your not topping out the struts being as all front KJ shocks are the same length and that issue only happens with OTT spacer lifts.If your that worried get the extended TerraFlex bumbstops and they can never "top out",there cheap too.For the coils hitting the UCA's time to get JBA's.If your going to lift it do it right or it will have little noises and issues until done correctly,just slapping on lift coils or spacers is not a complete lift to make everything function correctly like stock.

I was running 1.5" more lift then you and had zero noises and I actually flexed it out often.But I also had all the correct parts installed which is key.
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