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Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57443		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  kerrymann11 [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
Hi all,
I have a '06 libby gas that I am thinking about "trading up" to a CRD. I had been looking for a CRD when I came across a good deal on a gasser and I couldn't wait around any longer for a good diesel to come along (all the ones I found were high miles). I have done a franken lift and some 245/75/R16 duratracs and the truck does well off road and in the snow. I like the truck, it's just the gas mileage that is getting me down. Last hunting trip into the hills gave me 15mpg highway which I might as well be driving a full size. I had resigned myself to this but a while back I ran into a CRD at a gas station and I talked to the owner. His rig was set-up almost the same except having a green tune, and a ARB bull bar but he was getting 32mpg. So this got me thinking about looking for a CRD again and selling mine so i get the truck I orignaly wanted (other reasons then just the mileage). This would only make sense if I am keeping the truck for a while (I usually keep trucks for 5-7 years) but after doing a bunch of reading on the forum I am a bit concerned about maintaining a CRD for that long (this seems like a ridiculous statement about a diesel). If I get one with 50k and plan on keeping it 7 years and 100k mile more will I be regretting it? It worries me it is already seeming like there are parts availability problems and a lot of posts about catastrophic and major problems especially considering how few were made. I'd have no issue doing most work on the truck myself (I'm an ME, rebuild engines, lifts, etc) but if the turbo blows or I can't get parts then it is a different matter. So I wanted to get input from CRD you CRD owners. I know it's a open question (and probably biased) but should I go over to the dark side? :-)

Thanks
Author:  changingtime [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
interesting question.

my story: I always wanted a Diesel Jeep. Huge Jeep fan but was not buying another Jeep anytime soon due to the gas mileage. Than they sold some in the states; I wanted one new but couldn't spend the money until a used one came along.

Had i known I was going to have to put a new Torque Converter in within 8k miles from time of purchase (76k miles), I wouldn't have made the purchase.

But I did and I really love the vehicle after the fixes.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
Regear to 4.10's and you will gain back some lost mpg's from the tires.My gas KJ running 265/75's on steel rims,full armor,4.10 gears,and tipping the scales at 5500lbs could get 22mpg's on the highway recorded on my last trip from the Springs to MOAB and back.I since have SFA'd it and can still get 17mpg's on the highway with 5.13's and 35" Toyo's.
Author:  onthehunt [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
After 5 years and 75,000 miles I think any money saved by better mpg will be erased by inflated diesel fuel prices and parts replacement costs. I think buying one on a mpg comparison only is a bad idea.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
If you lift the CRD the fuel economy will be less by about 3-4 mpg (including all terrain tires). With a tune you might average 22mpg city and 26-27 mpg highway. There is not a longevity issue with the VM engine, there is a problem mis-diagnosing issues for many users and this tends to increase the mainenance costs. A tune would improve the engine life due to two main reasons: lower exhaust temps and much less soot accumulation in the oil. Parts are not an issue, although some have significant lead time.

Fuel economy is just one benefit of the diesel, the torque is also a major player. The CRD offers better towing capability and improved throttle/torque control for off-roading and rock crawling.

On a side note, we have heard the 3.7l gas engine has longevity issues above 150,000miles. The early models have an oiling issue on the rear cylinder on the passenger side that leads to premature bearing failures. Not sure if this design issue was fixed on the newer engines. Enjoy the search!
Author:  JL Rockies [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
:POPCORN:
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
On a side note, we have heard the 3.7l gas engine has longevity issues above 150,000miles. The early models have an oiling issue on the rear cylinder on the passenger side that leads to premature bearing failures. Not sure if this design issue was fixed on the newer engines. Enjoy the search!

Wonder why just on this board there are alot of older('02-'04) gas KJ's with 150,000+ miles on them,some even with over 200k.

:?:
Author:  CRD Joe [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
For me the extra mileage out ways the added fuel costs (.15 here in Washington) there arent any longevity or parts issues leading to added costs. At least there hasnt been with mine (65,000 miles) Besides I like being able to make/run my own fuel. Bio diesel.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
tjkj2002 wrote:
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
On a side note, we have heard the 3.7l gas engine has longevity issues above 150,000miles. The early models have an oiling issue on the rear cylinder on the passenger side that leads to premature bearing failures. Not sure if this design issue was fixed on the newer engines. Enjoy the search!

Wonder why just on this board there are alot of older('02-'04) gas KJ's with 150,000+ miles on them,some even with over 200k.

:?:


There should be several like you state, but keep in mind there are most likely 100,000 gas KJs per model year on the road and only 20,000 or so KJ CRDs in the US and Canada over two model years. The failure rates of both applications are not out of line for a Jeep, but the oiling issue is still real on early 3.7l engines.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
but the oiling issue is still real on early 3.7l engines.

I have yet run across any oiling issues not caused by owner fault(low oil) in a 3.7,in either a Dodge or a Jeep and I see many,not saying there has not been but with 1.2 million out there I'm sure there has been but just not a common issue.The most common issue I have ever run into on a 3.7 in a KJ is leaking high pressure PS hose,melted fan relay,and waterpumps on higher mileage 3.7's(100k+) which all are pretty common on any high mileage engines for the most part.Never once ran into a oil issue not caused by the owner.There have been some issues with the valve train but even those are few and far between,a $16 part fixes that and has nothing to do with oil.I also tend to "look" a bit more closely on KJ's at work since from here and other boards I know what to look for.
Author:  racertracer [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
I make my own fuel. I can procure about 2/3 of my monthly fuel usage from a local restaurant and the cost to produce Bio is minimal. I don't use as much in the winter becasue of gelling, but when spring and summer comes the flood gates open. Best hobby I've ever had, pays for the Libby and the parts.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
Don't forget the Common Rail Turbo Diesel low end torque, there are times it helps a lot.
Author:  mikey1273 [ Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
warp2diesel wrote:
Don't forget the Common Rail Turbo Diesel low end torque, there are times it helps a lot.



Yeah like when you want to tow something or just flatten out a hill on the freeway to the shock of other drivers.
Author:  kerrymann11 [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
Thanks for all the feedback guys. Hearing that I should only get mid 20's highway was less then what I was told and saw low 30's. But if that is realistic then better to know now then be disappointed later. I'd still like to have the diesel for the torque (and the fact that I have always wanted one). The bigger issue running through my head is that I have already got mine pretty close to where I want it (rails and lockers are still on the list) and I would most likely have to start all over with a CRD (time and money).

As for regearing the 3.7 to get better mileage I have read that from a few people but don't know if I buy it for a number of reasons (real mileage vs odo, higher gear usually hurts highway mileage, etc). I believe that a trail ready gasser should be able to do low 20's. Heck I built a '72 land cruiser wagon with 33s that would get low 20's that but that is a topic for a different forum. :)
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
You guys must have specialized gasoline out in the Rockies.. because here, there is not a gasser on the road that'll go past the 20 MPG mark, even on the highway, lifted or not.

Also, GDE is right... the 3.7s are dropping like flies now that they are starting to get some high mileage on them. Heck, just on the forums right now I can name several dead 3.7s.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
LibertyCRD wrote:
You guys must have specialized gasoline out in the Rockies.. because here, there is not a gasser on the road that'll go past the 20 MPG mark, even on the highway, lifted or not.

Also, GDE is right... the 3.7s are dropping like flies now that they are starting to get some high mileage on them. Heck, just on the forums right now I can name several dead 3.7s.

Lost less failures then CRD's just on this forum alone :-)r
Author:  danoid [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
I had a 2002 3.7L that struggled to get 15 mpg stock. Replaced with a 2005 CRD that can pull a 27' 5600# camper and still get 15 mpg. For me, 20 mpg in the winter, 25 mpg in the summer. Either way the higher cost of the fuel is easily paid for. And there isn't a gasser KJ in the land that can pull more than 500 miles out of a single tank.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
When your gasser blows, we should drop a CRD in there with a turbo kit...it would be stellar! Worthy of parking on top of the lion's back in Moab.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
Lions Back has been close for years... just sayin'
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sell my gasser and get a CRD?
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
When your gasser blows, we should drop a CRD in there with a turbo kit...it would be stellar! Worthy of parking on top of the lion's back in Moab.

Nope,never will happen,not even if you gave it to me for free.Going old school with a 347 SBF with more torque then the 2.8 could ever hope of producing,will not be rpm motor either,all torque will be made between 1200rpm-4000rpms.
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