Hi, I have a 2003 2.8L crd Cherokee/Liberty. It has done 65k miles. It has gone into a limp mode but with no cel. Tried clearing the mode but disconnecting battery and but the on off key trick but still in limp mode. Only have 2nd and 3rd gear, very slow acceleration, max 40 mph up a hill and only 60 down hill. Cleaned boost sensor, a bit gunky ( wet and sluggy ). Took it into the jeep dealer to get a diognosis and they said it was a seized waste gate valve. I've read post after post and people seem to be in two minds whether there is a gate gate valve or not, but looking through the workshop manual, it shows there is one and it looks like the garage is suggesting that the actuator in the waste gate is seized, not sure whether it is open or closed, but it has told the ecu to go into limp mode. From what I have read, dealers automatically blame the turbo for everything.


One point to mention is that when the car is turned off, there is a quick intermitent sucking noise coming from a vacuum controller that has a thin air tube going to the egr valve and another that goes off into the dash I think. This carries on sucking for a few minutes. I don't know if it is related.



I had a go at removing the turbo but got as far as removing the erg valve and cooler but couldn't get to the retaining nuts for the valve so had to stop and wanted to get clarification on the diagnosis before removing the exhaust manifold.

Everything is now back together while I debate what to do. If it is a stuck waste gate valve, is it something I can try and free if the turbo is removed or do I need to send it to a turbo centre?

When all the hoses were off, where was a good coating of oil in all of them even going through the air cooler before going into the intake manifold, is this right? I also checked that the turbine spun freely which it did and you can hear it whine happily when driving, it just isn't having any effect.

I'm no mechanic, I just like to fix as much as I can, which has worked in the past, but not sure if this is too much for me. I hope my terminology is near correct, I have done a bit of homework on it.

Can anyone help?

It isn't your turbo. Our vehicles do NOT have a wastegate, they have a VNT - Variable Vane Technology. (Yea, I don't know why it is VNT either) That big vacuum motor on the turbo moves the vanes IN the turbo, making it boost or not.

First thing to know, IF there was a problem with the turbo's actuator, you would receive either a Turbo underboost OR a turbo overboost code, with a light. Want to check the VNT actuation? Watch that vacuum motor arm, while having someone start the engine. You WILL see it move into the fully-closed position. Want to open it yourself then? Gently work the vacuum line off that motor - The motor will relax, and the vanes will open again. They don't

Cleaning the MAP is always a good idea. There are however TWO MORE sensors that cause no end of havoc in our airbox - The MAF and another MAP sensor, commonly referred to as the "Mercedes Logo Sensor" on the side of the airbox. It is this smaller MAP that I believe may be your culprit. I had problems with this little bugger due to a buggy wire, and many people have also had similar problems b/c of a weak connector on the sensor itself, or on the wiring. The problem is that when this sensor starts sending garbage, the computer doesn't respond properly, and cuts much of the power from the engine. A fast and easy way to diagnose this is to unplug the MAF sensor on the air intake hose. This WILL cause an idiot light, but you can go to your local AutoZone to have them reset the light, after you are done driving around a while. This is known as the "off road mod" because it will disable much of the EGR and emission control circuits, at the expense of that idiot light.

Now, the limitation of 40mph or so, while you can still hear the turbo whistling away... I suspect that you might just have a blown boost hose. This is VERY common at the mileage that you have, pull both large hoses (turbo to intercooler, and intercooler to intake) and thoroughly inspect them. Squeeze them, flex them... You may be surprised to find a split somewhere that you couldn't see when they were in the engine.

edit:/ Sorry, I didn't notice that you have a 2003, which means that all the information I provided is potentially incorrect, as you have an older unit than what were delivered in the USA in 2005. Sorry if I caused any confusion!

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Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Hi Pluto, Welcome to this site I did reply to you on "Country" whereby I stated that I have the 2002 2.5 CRD European Spec. From brand new this Jeep also has that little black box hissing for a few minutes after shutting down...it has always done so and yet my Jeep has no problems and goes well.
I think Geordi is incorrect....but I may be wrong ...when he states that your Jeep has a variable vane turbo...I believe that only came in on the models from about 2005 onwards....our Jeeps have a fixed vane turbo
You should be able to extract error codes by switching the ignition key on/off four times rapidly...do not start the vehicle..after the last on-turn the odometer displays all saved codes with the latest code appearing last.
I agree with Geordi that split hoses are the most likely suspect...hopefully someone here can give you some more advise and hopefully you can pull some codes out

Edit to add: If you dont get the right answer here soon....chase up "tonycrd" on this board....he has a 2002 CRD, Spanish version, and is very clued up on the Diesel KJ jeeps.

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

The 2003 CRD is a standard wastegate turbo. Look closely at the turbo, there is a rubber hose with a port on the compressor that runs to the wastegate actuator. When the turbo builds boost, the pressure port will cause the actuator to open the wastegate as it overcomes the springforce in the wastegate actuator. Maybe the actuator has lost springforce and is opening the WG at lower boost pressure (very rare and doubtful). You can try removing the vacuum line that goes to the EGR valve, this will prevent EGR from opening, maybe this system is not functioning properly.

On the export CRDs, the CEL rarely comes on, so you need to check for any stored fault codes in the computer and then post here, that info should help with issue resolution.

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Hi, Thank you for all your replies. I have gone out tonight to remove the two big tubes, one from the turbo to the intercooler and the other from the intercooler to the intake. I cleaned the outside of them with a bit of petrol to get clean tube to inspect. They both seem fine. They are, I think the later hoses as they are silicone lined (orange). I also inspected the vacuum hose between the vacuum controller and the egr valve, but also seemed ok. I disconnected this vacuum hose to see if it made any difference, but same symtoms. Funny thing is that it has the full pick up of speed and power in reverse but not forward, but I guess this is the limp mode results. I think there is a waste gate built into the turbo on mine, just further towards the exhaust manifold from the turbo. There is a small hose from the turbo to the waste gate valve. It doesn't look like you can remove the waste gate from the turbo, well at least without removing the turbo itself. I checked codes before it went to the dealer and there were a couple connected with the cruise control and something else unrelated, can't remember what, but since it has come back from them, I can't show any codes using the key on/off process. Could they have cleared them or stopped this method of checking codes? Is there any way of checking the waste gate valve, or the egr valve?

Also, is the 2.8 and 2.5 pretty much the same system? Would disconnecting the tube between the turbo and the waste gate actuator prove anything? And, I take it the turbo turbine is the spinning wheel with vanes on the entrance to the turbo where the air intake hose from the air filter goes into the turbo? It whistles away so I guess it's working ok. Is there anyway to test the waste gate actuator? Is it likely to be anything else unrelated to the turbo system? I know when this problem started, when I could extract the codes using the key, there were no code relating to the turbo and the engine light hasn't come on, but saying that, it may have come on breifly about 4 weeks ago before this problem.

This is incorrect. The 2002-2004 2.5 and 2.8 CRD's have a wastegated turbo.

Pluto, here is your turbo setup:


The nipple coming off of the top of the turbo outlet running around to the backside is where the actuator gets it boost from. It runs around to the backside where the wastegate actuator is.

It is possible that either the wastegate itself is stuck partially open or open, that the wastegate has come disconnected from the actuator linkage, or that the actuator has failed.



Here you can see the wastegate and the linkage on the left side of the turbo:

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Hi, I've taken some photo's tonight, but limited on access to get more detail. Not sure how to post them yet so put them on photobucket.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x52/ ... o%20setup/

I think my setup is the same as the above photo's.

The only code I finally got out of the key method is a P1685 Invalid key recieved from the SmartKey immobilizer module (the thingie in the ignition that makes sure you are using a correct key).

OK, done some more investigating on the car. I have found the actuation linkage between the waste gate valve and the actuator. This is the bit that the garage said had seized. I can only get to it with my hand and only just. I cannot move it at all. I take it I wouldn't be able to by hand if it is connected both ends. If I get someone to rev the engine hard, would I be able to see it move or is it only when the car is under force? If it is stuck, will I have to remove the whole turbo to free it? If I undo the oil feed and return from the turbo, will it flow oil everywhere? Everything is so difficult to get to. I guess I will have to undo the exhaust, undo the oil feed and return and the four nuts holding the turbo to the exhaust manifold. By doing this, will I be able to get to all the nuts and bolts or do I have to remove more to get to them? Sorry for all the question, I think this is the only way to get to the waste gate valve.

If you remove the rubber hose from the turbo compressor housing and then pressurize the hose to 1.2-1.4 bar gauge you should see the arm move to open the wastegate. The springforce is very high on the wastegate making it difficult to move by hand. The actuator has a multiplication effect on the pressure from the compressor allowing the wastegate to open when full boost is achieved.

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Providers of wholly developed aftermarket solutions for the KJ CRD.
(248) 977 - 9531

pluto383

In photobucket there's a place that has 4 options for sharing a photo. If you "copy" the bottom one, as I recall, and "paste" that it in your LOST post the picture will appear. You can "preview" your post before "submit" to be sure you've got it right. The above procedure requires you having two browser incidents running, one for LOST and one for Photobucket.

Hope this helps
Joe

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

Well, I managed to remove the turbo setup from my car only to find that everything was fine with it. The waste gate was not stuck and the turbine spins with no problem. I checked the wastegate valve by putting compressed air into the feed line and the actuator worked. So I put everything back together and no improvement at all. I did try to look at the wastegate actuator arm to see if it moved when I reved the car but I didn't move at all when reving. Should it move when just reving at stationary? This would then lead to a split pipe somewhere but they all seem ok. When I did rev the car, the tube before the intercooler pressured up. The one on the other side of the intercooler didn't pressure up to the same extent at the pre intercooler. But, if it did pressure up, why is my wastegate not openning? Could the sensitivity of the wastegate valve actuator decrease? What can I check next?

It is not supposed to open the wastegate in a feel load acceleration...not enough boost to open wastegate. A hard brake torque might do it, but this could have other consequences on your torque converter. Since your CRD is running is some sort of limp-home mode the fule is limited and not enough exhaust gas pressure is developed to build enough boost to open the wastegate. There are several fault codes that can be stored without setting a check engine light. Please check the fault codes with a good scan tool and post anything that comes up.

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Providers of wholly developed aftermarket solutions for the KJ CRD.
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So, if I unscrew the fuel filter, can I clean it out by swirling around with fresh fuel and then screw it back on? I haven't got a code reader and the only code I get from the key is p1685. What else can I try immediately before taking it back to the garage top get the codes read properly other than the fuel filter?

That is a negative on the fuel filter cleaning...not possible, you would need to replace the part.

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Providers of wholly developed aftermarket solutions for the KJ CRD.
(248) 977 - 9531

OK, just off to the Jeep garage to get a new filter, is there anything else cheapish to get to try and fix my problem?

Oh, and the garage told me there was a P1130 fault code that they cleared which has not come back, but tghe limp mode is still there.

Ok so it seems the turbo is fine.

You said you checked the boost hoses, and that they are fine. I think next you should think about making a boost leak tester.

There are all sorts of ways to go about this, and a quick google image search for a "boost leak tester" will return all sorts of options:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ag3y13.jpg
http://www.socaps.com/photopost/data/50 ... DM_MOD.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/2j4y0hx.jpg

I would test into the turbo inlet, through the boost hose #1, through the intercooler, through boost hose #2 and then either cap it or make sure when your test that the engine is in the correct position for the valves not to leak.

This way you can at least determine if a boost leak is the cause of your woes, or if it is fuel related.

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"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

Gees this thread is old, i wonder what the solution was, as our jeep has identical issues and setup.

Slow off the mark, no boost off idle, P1130 code

Been chasing air turbo hoses intercooler this week,

But now im thinking fuel pump. Fuel rail sensor or fuel rail solenoid ?

Anyone?

Thanks

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WK 5.7 Ltd - KJ Renegade 2.8 CRD

P1130:Fuel rail pressure malfunction pressure too low
Fuel rail pressure malfunction solenoid open
Fuel pressure malfunction solenoid open
Fuel pressure malfunction pressure too high shut off

Firstly download the "2.5-28 Export Diesel" supplement here, this covers our export CRDs http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ:

While you are on this site you can download the Relevent year Service Manual...covers everything but not our type of diesel engines...includes circuit diagrams.

Then I have another download, I forgot where I got it from, only is 1,137 KB in size. This covers the DTC codes and tells you what to do about it. If you send me a private message here giving me your E-mail address I will E-mail it to you!

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport