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If the weather were warm I wouldhook up my vag-com and get you some readings. What is "KPA"?

Joe

So the EVIC lies huh? Does the GDE tune fix any of those lies or is that thing always going to be worthless? Oh yeah, one other thing. How do you fix the :evil:

TPM system. The EVIC always says "Check TPM system" for the first minute and the light is always on on the cluster. Any one know how to troubleshoot this thing? It has told me that I had low tire pressure but didn't say which tire. So it is reading something... Any help would be great. The replacement parts are outrageous so I can't just throw parts at it until the light goes out.

Well at sea level on a normal day it should read 101 kpa,so at about 900' 94 kpa is just about dead on.

14.7 psi = 101 kpa
29.9 in hg = 101 kpa
1 bar = 101 kpa

Thank you for all the good information. This is by far the best forum for tech info I have found. In fact I'm done looking, nobody can come close to what you guys have built. Many thanks for the warm welcome.

Phatjimmy wrote:

Not only that, but most of us can spell too. I've joined a couple of Suzuki Samurai boards lately and lets just say that contrary to intuition, the boys in the shallowest end of the gene pool need the tallest tires to get out.

I looked at mine today and here's what I found.

VAG-COM uses kpa too :seuss:

I'm in Columbus Ohio and the elevation is 900 feet.
Coolant temp 75c
Intake Manifold absolute pressure 99kpa
intake air temp 17c
mas air flow 108.02 g/s
760 rpms.

These readings were taken by my Vag-Com (for VW's, fantstic tool) and I have the GDE full torque tune :BANANA:

Ambient temperature is 30f per my indoor/outdoor thermomenter.

Enjoy your 4 wheel locomotive :JEEPIN:

Joe

Thanks for that info. Sounds like my MAP is right on the money since we are neighbors (Lebanon Indiana) and about the same elevation and temps. I can't wait to get the GED eco-tune with full torque. Everybody is raving about it on the forum. Plus, who doesn't love Loco-power out of a Jeep with a 4 popper in it.... :lol:

Have you seen this chart on the GDE site?
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/20.page
As they left the factory peak was 300 foot pounds

After a dealer visit and F37 it was 260 foot pounds :oops:

The full torque tune is 335 '# :SOMBRERO:

When looking at the chart keep in mind the standard Echo tune is throttled back to to avoid shudder and what's shown is the full torque values :-)r

Author:	Phatjimmy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Libby MAP kpa
I recently purchased a used 2005 Liberty CRD Limited from a local dealership. I had no idea that such an animal existed until a few guys at work were talking about them. Having been a owner of a 1982 diesel Chevette (loved it) and a current owner of a 1979 Mercedes 300SD turbo diesel (love it even more) and working on diesel electric locomotives for a living (6000 hp, really really love it!). I did some research, found one and traded in the old Saturn SC2 I was driving. It is a nice vehicle and I love the little Italian/Detroit diesel but seems to be plagued with the evil EPA emissions junk. Who ever thought of putting an EGR on a diesel should be taken out back and sh*T. Anyway, I did the ORM stuff and cleaned the MAP-Boost sensor-Air Temp Sensor..... It was plugged with nasty dry carbon soot as others have had. I was getting around 27 mpg on the freeway to work every day (according to the overhead info center thing) before I cleaned the MAP. Once I cleaned the sensor I now get 22-23 mpg on the freeway to work (on the overhead info center thing). Did I kill it? Am I just getting a more accurate reading to the PCM? Do any of you folks know what the kpa value should be at idle @ 900 ft elevation? I have a nice scan tool but I have no specs what so ever for a diesel Liberty. Currently at idle, it about 94 kpa. Thanks, Phatjimmy

Author:	stoutdog [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
Can't really trust the EVIC (the overhead info center thing ). Run a few tanks through it and calculate the hard numbers... if you are getting about 20/26, you're probably fine. Then get a GDE tune and you'll be doing even better Welcome to the CRD and the forum!

Author:	Joe Romas [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
If you get the "full torque" GDE tune you'll think your in a locomotive But you'll find out how good your torque converter is. GDE also have a transmission tune that has better shift points. Chrysler changed the original shift points when and detuned the engine both to get the whimpy torque converter to last through the warranty period. I finally got mine to where it was when I bought it plus the newer torque converter. Have you checked if there was a extended warranty that can be transfered to you? Another factor is when cold the trandmission does not lock up the torque converter untill the fluid reaches a certain temperature and that will hit your mileage too. Add to that thermostats are failing and open early causing the engine to run cold. Normal operating range according to the guage is one tick left of center and that is 176f. If the weather were warm I wouldhook up my vag-com and get you some readings. What is "KPA"? Joe

Author:	Snowy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
"(according to the overhead info center thing)" The "overhead console thing" or EVIC, is really a sad joke of a device. Do the actual math and you'll find 20-26 is pretty normal. I've gotten as high as 30mpg, driving between L.A. and Las Vegas and around 20, in the city. I'd heartily second what the others are saying about everything else as well. Being a diesel mechanic puts you way ahead of the game. Haven't hear reference to "Pascal" since high school/college. Haven't had any use for it since then, either

Author:	Phatjimmy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa & other things
Joe Romas wrote: If the weather were warm I wouldhook up my vag-com and get you some readings. What is "KPA"? Joe Hi Joe, Kpa is Kilopascal, a metric measure for atmospheric pressure (most of the world uses Hg). My scan tool, for what ever reason is reading the MAP in kpa instead of PSI, Hg or Bar. Actron Chinese crap I guess. But it works. Thank you for all the good information. This is by far the best forum for tech info I have found. In fact I'm done looking, nobody can come close to what you guys have built. Many thanks for the warm welcome. According to my local stealership my CRD has had all the recall stuff done (including the F37 castration) and had the latest converter installed when the front pump was changed. They could not tell me if it was the euro one or not. I do have an extended warranty for two years or 24,000 miles from the mileage at time of purchase. All the power train is covered. So if I can swing the GDE eco tune with full torque this coming spring, we'll find out what torque converter I have.... I did drive it the other day with the scan tool plugged in and watched live data. The temp was around 168-179 depending on hills or flat road (I drive through both on the way to work). It's been really cold so I was impressed that it could hold those temps with the heater running. Now, around town it's not keeping heat to well. I think that viscous heater is the only thing keeping it warm enough to be comfortable. I figured that was just a normal diesel in cold weather at low to idle rpm. So the EVIC lies huh? Does the GDE tune fix any of those lies or is that thing always going to be worthless? Oh yeah, one other thing. How do you fix the TPM system. The EVIC always says "Check TPM system" for the first minute and the light is always on on the cluster. Any one know how to troubleshoot this thing? It has told me that I had low tire pressure but didn't say which tire. So it is reading something... Any help would be great. The replacement parts are outrageous so I can't just throw parts at it until the light goes out.

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Author:	stoutdog [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa & other things
Phatjimmy wrote: So the EVIC lies huh? Does the GDE tune fix any of those lies or is that thing always going to be worthless? Oh yeah, one other thing. How do you fix the TPM system. The EVIC always says "Check TPM system" for the first minute and the light is always on on the cluster. Any one know how to troubleshoot this thing? It has told me that I had low tire pressure but didn't say which tire. So it is reading something... Any help would be great. The replacement parts are outrageous so I can't just throw parts at it until the light goes out. The GDE tune actually may make the EVIC worse. Once your Jeep is optimized and running like it should, with a good tune, the Chrysler EVIC doesn't know what to do! Once, after 600+ miles of driving, I had an EVIC reading of 48.3... something like 15mpg over what I actually got. I'm partially convinced Chrysler made the EVIC read high in the first place, so people who don't hand calculate their own mileage can feel happier about it. As far as the TPMS stuff goes, check all your tires (including the spare). If everything is up to the correct pressure, you may have a bad sensor...

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
Well at sea level on a normal day it should read 101 kpa,so at about 900' 94 kpa is just about dead on. 14.7 psi = 101 kpa 29.9 in hg = 101 kpa 1 bar = 101 kpa

Author:	Phatjimmy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
tjkj2002 wrote: Well at sea level on a normal day it should read 101 kpa,so at about 900' 94 kpa is just about dead on. 14.7 psi = 101 kpa 29.9 in hg = 101 kpa 1 bar = 101 kpa Excellent! Thank you for that info. That's what I needed to be sure that the MAP is not damaged from the build up or when I cleaned it.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa & other things
Phatjimmy wrote: Thank you for all the good information. This is by far the best forum for tech info I have found. In fact I'm done looking, nobody can come close to what you guys have built. Many thanks for the warm welcome. Not only that, but most of us can spell too. I've joined a couple of Suzuki Samurai boards lately and lets just say that contrary to intuition, the boys in the shallowest end of the gene pool need the tallest tires to get out.

Author:	Phatjimmy [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa & other things
nursecosmo wrote: Phatjimmy wrote: Thank you for all the good information. This is by far the best forum for tech info I have found. In fact I'm done looking, nobody can come close to what you guys have built. Many thanks for the warm welcome. Not only that, but most of us can spell too. I've joined a couple of Suzuki Samurai boards lately and lets just say that contrary to intuition, the boys in the shallowest end of the gene pool need the tallest tires to get out. That's funny and sad but true. Several of the jeep forums and diesel forums I visited were nothing but idiots gathered around trying to penis extend about their superior diesel knowledge. Not one of the them could offer any information on the Jeep Liberty and most didn't even know that it came with a diesel option in 05-06. Cummings & Power Stroke and how "Mine is faster then yours" or "Mine smokes more then yours"..... Most had a hard time spelling "diesel" I love this forum!

Author:	Joe Romas [ Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
I looked at mine today and here's what I found. VAG-COM uses kpa too I'm in Columbus Ohio and the elevation is 900 feet. Coolant temp 75c Intake Manifold absolute pressure 99kpa intake air temp 17c mas air flow 108.02 g/s 760 rpms. These readings were taken by my Vag-Com (for VW's, fantstic tool) and I have the GDE full torque tune Ambient temperature is 30f per my indoor/outdoor thermomenter. Enjoy your 4 wheel locomotive Joe

Author:	Phatjimmy [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
Joe Romas wrote: I looked at mine today and here's what I found. VAG-COM uses kpa too I'm in Columbus Ohio and the elevation is 900 feet. Coolant temp 75c Intake Manifold absolute pressure 99kpa intake air temp 17c mas air flow 108.02 g/s 760 rpms. These readings were taken by my Vag-Com (for VW's, fantstic tool) and I have the GDE full torque tune Ambient temperature is 30f per my indoor/outdoor thermomenter. Enjoy your 4 wheel locomotive Joe Thanks for that info. Sounds like my MAP is right on the money since we are neighbors (Lebanon Indiana) and about the same elevation and temps. I can't wait to get the GED eco-tune with full torque. Everybody is raving about it on the forum. Plus, who doesn't love Loco-power out of a Jeep with a 4 popper in it....

Author:	Joe Romas [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
Phatjimmy wrote: Thanks for that info. Sounds like my MAP is right on the money since we are neighbors (Lebanon Indiana) and about the same elevation and temps. I can't wait to get the GED eco-tune with full torque. Everybody is raving about it on the forum. Plus, who doesn't love Loco-power out of a Jeep with a 4 popper in it.... Have you seen this chart on the GDE site? http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/20.page As they left the factory peak was 300 foot pounds After a dealer visit and F37 it was 260 foot pounds The full torque tune is 335 '# When looking at the chart keep in mind the standard Echo tune is throttled back to to avoid shudder and what's shown is the full torque values

Author:	Phatjimmy [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Libby MAP kpa
Joe Romas wrote: Have you seen this chart on the GDE site? http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/20.page As they left the factory peak was 300 foot pounds After a dealer visit and F37 it was 260 foot pounds The full torque tune is 335 '# When looking at the chart keep in mind the standard Echo tune is throttled back to to avoid shudder and what's shown is the full torque values Interesting. That F37 really did kill the torque and horsepower. Typical large manufacturer/company solution. Take the wrong way around to fix a poor design problem. The rail industry does the same thing. To make old locomotives emission compliant, we pin the turbocharger which makes it spin at gear driven engine speed only and thus we lose about 1500 horsepower off a locomotive that only makes 3000 hp. Somehow using more fuel and working the engine harder (As Al Gore people always say "more evil black smoke") is the right thing to do. I don't understand. Seems like less fuel used is better for the air quality. Same goes for the CRD. Thanks for the information. I will be getting the Eco-tune with full torque for sure. If I didn't need the fuel economy, I would go for the hot tune but the eco-tune will be a huge improvement over the F37 mess.

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