torque converter shudder after trans service

snowman_crd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:06 pm

I took the libby in to have the trans flushed and filters replaced by a reputable local shop. I got it back and I am now getting shudder from the TC I assume in the morning on cold starts. I get a little shifting into reverse, but much more once braking down from 10mph to a stop. It is like the engine is surging and the brakes are having a tough time holding her back.

I did get some TC shudder before the flush and filter under heavy load 50-55mph, but never while on cold start at low speed and durring braking. In reading some posts I am assuming that there is in issue with the drain back valve due to the cold start issues. I also am wondering if this shop put proper fluid back in the trans.

If I have to have the trans opened up for valve work, should I just have the TC replaced?

Thanks for any input,

Snowman

OldSkull · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 pm

If the engine almost stall wen you stop with the tranny cold your fluid level is too low go back to the shop and ask them to check fluid level of your transmission, I experience the same problem a week ago, my OEM transmission cooler hose disconected and I loose almost all the fluid in the tranny, I adjust my level maybe 10 times before I get the level where it's suppose to be!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:07 pm

Also make sure they did not use some Universal Fluid.
ATF+4 is all that will work on a 545RFE.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:30 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Also make sure they did not use some Universal Fluid.
ATF+4 is all that will work on a 545RFE.

x2 - about half the folks getting Suncoasts installed got the wrong fluid - even if you tell them up front - they don't believe it's an issue until you start having problems.

OldSkull · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:21 am

ATXKJ wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

Also make sure they did not use some Universal Fluid.
ATF+4 is all that will work on a 545RFE.

x2 - about half the folks getting Suncoasts installed got the wrong fluid - even if you tell them up front - they don't believe it's an issue until you start having problems.

X3 Last summer I change both filters and the solenoid pack, install my shiftkit, adjust my level and get to the transmission shop the next day to install my Euro TC and my new trans cooler lines ! I give them 2 X 4liters of Mobil One ATF+4 and insist they use it!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:08 am

snowman_crd wrote:

I took the libby in to have the trans flushed and filters replaced by a reputable local shop. I got it back and I am now getting shudder from the TC I assume in the morning on cold starts. I get a little shifting into reverse, but much more once braking down from 10mph to a stop. It is like the engine is surging and the brakes are having a tough time holding her back.

I did get some TC shudder before the flush and filter under heavy load 50-55mph, but never while on cold start at low speed and durring braking. In reading some posts I am assuming that there is in issue with the drain back valve due to the cold start issues. I also am wondering if this shop put proper fluid back in the trans.

If I have to have the trans opened up for valve work, should I just have the TC replaced?

Thanks for any input,

Snowman

Did you have the "trans relearn" done? Very important step for the 45RFE/545RFE after a trans service.It resets the shift points and relearns your driving habits to account for the new fluid.Takes a few mins with a high end scanner or the DRBIII/StarScan.

And no just unhooking your battery does not do the same thing.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:42 am

There's a do it yourself "driving quick learn procedure" in the fsm. It will definetly help erratic shifting but I wonder if will help your shudder.
When the dealer replaced my tc and front pump they did the computerized relearn procedure but it still took a while to learn MY driving :SOMBRERO:

snowman_crd · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:08 am

Thank you all for your responses. I am taking it into the shop at lunch to talk with them to confirm that they indeed used ATF+4 and if they did a relearn. Right now the level seems to be correct.

snowman_crd · **Posted:** Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:23 pm

The shop called and said that they topped off the fluid, reset the TCM and did the quick learn on it. After they that it seems to be driving normal. I will pick it up after work and find out if that is true.

snowman_crd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:47 pm

This supposed fix was found to be false, because when i left for work this morning the shudder was back. I asked what kind of fluid he used and he said Dexron IV. He said that this is the latest and greatest fluid and he uses it in everything. Should I demand that he drain and refill with ATF+4?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:54 pm

snowman_crd wrote:

This supposed fix was found to be false, because when i left for work this morning the shudder was back. I asked what kind of fluid he used and he said Dexron IV. He said that this is the latest and greatest fluid and he uses it in everything. Should I demand that he drain and refill with ATF+4?

Yes,DEXVI(it is 6 and not 4) has a drastically different additive package then ATF+4 and is to be used in GM trans only.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:36 pm

snowman_crd wrote:

This supposed fix was found to be false, because when i left for work this morning the shudder was back. I asked what kind of fluid he used and he said Dexron IV. He said that this is the latest and greatest fluid and he uses it in everything. Should I demand that he drain and refill with ATF+4?

Definetly have him get every drop of the WRONG flud out of your transmission :grim:

There is NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL and expecially on your CRD.

This is a very old story and has been done by independent trans shops many times because they only buy one type of fluid in 55 gallon drums :JEEPIN:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:47 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

snowman_crd wrote:

This supposed fix was found to be false, because when i left for work this morning the shudder was back. I asked what kind of fluid he used and he said Dexron IV. He said that this is the latest and greatest fluid and he uses it in everything. Should I demand that he drain and refill with ATF+4?

Definetly have him get every drop of the WRONG flud out of your transmission :grim:

There is NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL and expecially on your CRD.

This is a very old story and has been done by independent trans shops many times because they only buy one type of fluid in 55 gallon drums :JEEPIN:

Good luck draining/flushing the torque converter with out pulling the transmission.
Over the years I have only seen a couple cars with drain plugs on the torque converter and a way to get at it when in the car.

If they have shop insurance that is worth a hoot, their insurance will cover it.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:52 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

snowman_crd wrote:

This supposed fix was found to be false, because when i left for work this morning the shudder was back. I asked what kind of fluid he used and he said Dexron IV. He said that this is the latest and greatest fluid and he uses it in everything. Should I demand that he drain and refill with ATF+4?

Definetly have him get every drop of the WRONG flud out of your transmission :grim:

There is NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL and expecially on your CRD.

This is a very old story and has been done by independent trans shops many times because they only buy one type of fluid in 55 gallon drums :JEEPIN:

Good luck draining/flushing the torque converter with out pulling the transmission.
Over the years I have only seen a couple cars with drain plugs on the torque converter and a way to get at it when in the car.

If they have shop insurance that is worth a hoot, their insurance will cover it.

It's called a trans flush,flushing 28qts(twice what your 545RFE holds) will do the trick.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:00 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

[It's called a trans flush,flushing 28qts(twice what your 545RFE holds) will do the trick.

And you need to cross your fingers on one or both hands?

What about your toes too? :ROTFL:

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:18 am

Might now be the time to take the CRD to a Jeep dealer for a flush and whatever they recommend and for the independent shop to totally foot the bill for his mistake :?:

You've been far too patient with him :pepper:

snowman_crd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:24 pm

Well I kept getting the run around and found someone else at the shop complaining when I went back today. I insisted on my money back which he ended up providing. I am taking it in to another shop Monday morning that is going to allow me to watch them tear down the pan and flush and fill. Hopefully there is no damage done. Thanks for all of your help.

06PeakBagger · **Posted:** Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:02 am

If it caused damage or due to the shops error I would demand compensation. They are suppose to be professionals and repair vehicles are required by the manufacturer.

powerstroker67 · **Joined:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:21 am **Posts:** 19

snowman_crd wrote:

Well I kept getting the run around and found someone else at the shop complaining when I went back today. I insisted on my money back which he ended up providing. I am taking it in to another shop Monday morning that is going to allow me to watch them tear down the pan and flush and fill. Hopefully there is no damage done. Thanks for all of your help.

I would suggest making sure to use the latest version of OEM filter, there were a bunch of the spinon filters that had a internal problem that allowed drain back and air getting into the system. Also the shop should perform a relearn on the tranny after the service, between this and the correct fluid the tranny will shift completely different. The clutch fill times or clutch volume index is very important to correctly time the shifts both out of one gear and into the next. The tranny "learns" the timing with the old worn fluid and even if the first shop had installed the correct fluid and filters it still should have been "relearned" for the viscosity of the new fluid. We use OEM Chrysler DRB for programming, but I think some of the high end scanners have some of the OEM functions like tranny learning.

snowman_crd · **Posted:** Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:07 pm

Well I just picked up the jeep from another local trans shop and it is driving better than I can ever remember. They drained all the "Dexron IV" out of it, filled with ATF+4 drove it, gave it back to me for 50 miles, and then let it drain over night and filled her up again. In doing this there was no evidence of debris in the pan, but they did find out that the other shop didn't actually change the filters as they charged me for. Also, They told me that they figure he was lying about putting Dexron IV because it is a very expensive fluid ($15 per quart where the first shop charged me $120 for the change), but there are many seminars he's been too saying that Dexron IV has a multitude of applications outside of GM transmissions, although he wouldn't recommend it.

Thanks all for your input and hopefully this is the end of this saga,

Snowman

torque converter shudder after trans service

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