LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Help: CRD just died
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57980		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  equipt31 [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Help: CRD just died
Was driving back to work from lunch just now, doing about 40 on a regular road when all of a sudden i hear a series of fast ticks that sound like theyre coming from under the hood. I immediately know something is wrong so i try to pull into a parking lot and it dies in the left turn lane, oil light turns on. I checked the oil and was at the proper level, no leaking underneath that i can see.

I've read all the issues w/these jeeps and the symptoms have just become 1 big blur in my head now. Timing belt was JUST changed, maybe 500 miles ago so thats not it. I have been driving with the ORM and no other mods that I know of. I believe the jeep has been f37'd based on shifting around 62 or higher. I can't really say much more than that. Oil light remains on when key turned to on, a cop helped me push it into a parking lot, a tow truck is on the way and my mechanic will have a look i guess.

Not alot of clues here but I'd appreciate any input you guys can provide. I'll mention that the last week or so the sound of the engine has been different (or I could be paranoid). I assumed it was just because i drove it before fully warm (it would take all day to warm it up in Chicago winters). The sound of the engine was more "clacky", hard to say for sure since it has the diesel noise and it disappeared at higher speeds. So what could it be? Boost hoses? TC? Turbo?
Author:  Metal Man [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Quote:
Timing belt was JUST changed, maybe 500 miles ago so thats not it.

I have no help other than I would say this is the most likely thing because it was just changed. I hope that's not your problem.
Author:  onthehunt [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Oil light on is normal if the key was on and the engine is not running. I suspect the recent work done as well. Make them pay the tow as well if it is related to work performed.
Author:  equipt31 [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
onthehunt wrote:
Oil light on is normal if the key was on and the engine is not running. I suspect the recent work done as well. Make them pay the tow as well if it is related to work performed.


I never noticed, but shouldn't the oil light turn off like the ABS, CEL, and other lights that come up after a few seconds even if you dont start it?
Author:  geordi [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
No, because there is no oil pressure if the engine is not turning. That idiot light is not like the others, it should be a direct connection to the sensor by the filter.

I would also point at the recent work, if only b/c that was the most recent change to the vehicle. Ticking is never a good thing, and unfortunately you can't trust that idiot light for the oil, but the fact that the engine is still full of oil is a good thing. As long as the turbo blades also spin easily when you poke them with a finger (from the airbox-hose side, easy to test) then I would say this is not oil related.

The turbo will not put up with low or no oil for very long, it will fail FAST by burning a bearing out from overheating. The benefit here, is that it should fail before your engine would.

Did they change the water pump? Flush the coolant and replace with HOAT as a refill?
Author:  equipt31 [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
the water pump was def changed. the coolant im not sure on details, i expect that they did it right since i got the point across to be very thorough (they didnt think the t-stat needed to be changed but i insisted on it).
why change w/hoat instead of something else?...maybe a dumb question
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
The HOAT antifreeze doesn't mix well with the other types - and if you just dump & refill it'll have some of the old (you'd really have to flush to clean everything)

although if it's wrong - I'd expect it to be a long term internal corrosion issue - not a 500 mile issue.
Author:  dkenny [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
my first suggestion I hope is obivious..DON'T RUN the ENGINE!..

next check for any and all codes...
report back..

tow it home..unless you cannot work on it your self..if you can the HOME!!

some questions.
do you have an after market lift pump?
when was the last filter change?
what are the local temps? are you running a biodiesel blend?
when did you last change the oil and filter?
have you check for fuel/water in the oil?

DON'T run the engine!!
you might save yourself thousands here..

-dkenny
Author:  Drewd [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
As a former TDI owner, botched timing belt jobs that failed shortly after they were done prejudice me to think that this may be the issue here too. Was the tensioner and water pump replaced with the TB job?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Drewd wrote:
As a former TDI owner, botched timing belt jobs that failed shortly after they were done prejudice me to think that this may be the issue here too. Was the tensioner and water pump replaced with the TB job?


X3 I've put many timing belts, close to 50 maybe, on VW diesels and never had a failure. But I would always sweat starting it up even though all related parts and precautions were taken. But I did have a premature water pump failure after the job on my 93 Eurovan requiring it all be done over. It's a I5 gas and supposably not a interference engine but can bend valves just the same :banghead:
Author:  equipt31 [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Tensioner and water pump were both changed

To answer kennys questions....I can't check codes until my mechanic looks at it today, hopefully he'll have some info. I'll at least have the 1 that goes w/the ORM
No lift pump, this jeep was pretty much stock when I bought it
Filter=Fuel filter? Changed when I bought it, stock, around 3k miles ago? Maybe more?
Temps are in the 20s/30s and teens overnight, it can be much worse or better depending on the day (we've been as high as 50 and low as 7 in the last 2 weeks). No bio but local stations put between 5-20% bio in the pump these days.
oil and filter changed w/timing belt
i have not checked the oil any more than to make sure its at level so I cant comment about fuel/water in it
Author:  equipt31 [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Update: Well it WASNT the timing belt, belt is on properly and not damaged. So far no clues as to what was the cause but so far the result is a single destroyed valve. They are gonna take it apart some more tomorrow and hopefully figure out wtf happened. If anyone has any ideas please chime in. There was no further engine damage they could find so far.
Author:  KYMidnight [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Errrmmm?! :shock:
equipt31 wrote:
Update: Well it WASNT the timing belt, belt is on properly and not damaged. So far no clues as to what was the cause but so far the result is a single destroyed valve. They are gonna take it apart some more tomorrow and hopefully figure out wtf happened. If anyone has any ideas please chime in. There was no further engine damage they could find so far.


Did you take it to same shop that did the belt by chance? Cause I'm having a hard time figuring out what happened to your valve if there were no timing issues... :o
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...
I mean, I guess a cam could have broken or something, but I've never heard of that happening before...
Author:  kapalczynski [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Um...did they torque the cam gears down to spec again?!?!?! The Cam gears on our CRD's are not keyed therefore they can slip and let the cams move independent of them if not torqued down properly. If they didn't tighten enough they could have slipped a little and let the valve hit causing the failure. This is my guess. Just because the timing belt is on and intact MEANS NOTHING if the gears slipped compared to the camshafts.

Things like this is why I am scared to let ANYONE touch my vehicles, I always do it myself if I can. I have had even very reputable shops forget a small thing that cost me big $ and they claim it is not their fault. I did my own timing belt, checked and doubble checked everything 2-3 times on something like this that can cause $$$ failure if anything is wrong.

GOOD luck, sounds like you need an act of God to help you with this one. Hopefully they will fess up (at least if it was indeed their fault) adn pay for the damages and fix it for you.

- Mark
Author:  flman [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Yup, they screwed up the TB job, another reason I will be doing mine myself.

I feel sorry for the OP.
Author:  KYMidnight [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
kapalczynski wrote:
Um...did they torque the cam gears down to spec again?!?!?! The Cam gears on our CRD's are not keyed therefore they can slip and let the cams move independent of them if not torqued down properly. If they didn't tighten enough they could have slipped a little and let the valve hit causing the failure. This is my guess. Just because the timing belt is on and intact MEANS NOTHING if the gears slipped compared to the camshafts.


X100
This is almost certainly the shop's fault for not doing the TB correctly. Now, getting them to admit this and fix it on their dime... :grim:
Author:  warp2diesel [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
You need a second opinion.
The shop owner should have liability insurance and your problem should be covered if they screw up (error) or some other part failed. Something like a tensioner nut or idler pulley nut coming loose (cracked washer can cause the problem) or stud/bolt causing the T belt to slip time could be what the Insurance Adjuster needs to be provided with (just an example), find the real cause so the claim can be processed.

When I was in the repair business, a nylon drain plug gasket cracked/split and the drain plug fell out trashing the crank.
My shop insurance paid for a re-man crank. After that I never used a nylon drain plug gasket again.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Check the Glow plugs - see if they're all there and in one piece.
Author:  equipt31 [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
Thanks for all the opinions. At the moment I'm a little skeptical if this was the shop's fault, correct me if I'm wrong. The ONLY damaged parts they could find was a single valve which ended up damaging a piston.
If this was a cam issue wouldn't this have damaged at LEAST 2 valves? Possibly more damaged? At this point they are just replacing the 1 valve and piston. It's a tough spot to get a good explanation, their guess is cheap material. I can't argue with such little damage. I am still trying to get over there to take pics, I will have them by the weekend I hope.
I told them to keep it and drive it a couple days to make sure there are no more bugs so maybe I'll pick it up sometime next week, I'm in no rush as I'm driving my dad's Forester while he's out of town for a few weeks. If I'm missing something please point it out or is this just a 1 in a million thing?

Edit: I am not a mechanic or highly mechanical by any means in case someone didnt notice, I have basic knowledge/understanding but would rely on help for more in-depth labor like engine repairs or a timing belt job.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help: CRD just died
What IF when turning the engine by hand after the belt was installed that velve was bent because it was not timed properly. Then they retimed it and sent you on your way :?:

I've replaced lots of VW diesel timing belts and there are many ways the job can get messed if the directions are not exactly followed :dizzy:
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/