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ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related ????
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58001		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Sunazur [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related ????
Hello all I am writing from France .
I am an happy owner of a Jeep KJ 2007 CRD 2.8 having around 20Kmiles on the clock.

Last week I spend some xmas holidays on the mountain and after used back the car after being parked at around 14F for few days the car had no problem to start BUT after started and engine happily idling the ETC signal started to blink.....

I did not noticed any kind of issue on driving the car , event on the way back home.
I thought it was due to the cold temperature and *eventually* to the fact the battery is still the OPTIMA original one.

Today , once came back home ( I leave on the sea side ) I used again the car and even if the temperature are much better (56F :wink: ) I had the same problem. Suddenly I noticed the the ETC light started to blink once the automatic idling regulator tried to accelerate a little bit (just after the normal ignition) and this moment reminded me a problem I had with my old gasoline cars where in order to remove this problem after a certain mileage I had to clean the butterfly.

I am very puzzled :roll: because as far I know the butterfly unit belong only to the gasoline engines on the other hand the *signal* of the failure is very similar ....

I am wrong ??? :dizzy:
What I can do ????
Thank you very much from a friend overseas ..... :D
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
You may want to check the fault codes even if the CEL is not on. On the export CRDs the ETC light will flash if there is a glow plug failure.
Author:  Sunazur [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Oh, thank you :P ... a problem in the glow plug might be the case , and the cold temperature caused the dead of the plug(s) :roll: ...
will continue to investigate...

I will search in the forum how to troubleshoot it ( I suppose is easy with the Ohmmeter ) , is a kind a common issue , specially on wintertime .. I guess.... :juggle:

Thank you,
Author:  dkenny [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
sorry this might be OT..
where on the seaside? the north or the south.

I spent a month in the south near Nice. but a long.......long time ago..think 1980...

what codes do you have?
do you biodiesel? or bought diesel?

bad glow plug will throw a code..

-dkenny
Author:  Sunazur [ Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Yes, I leave close to Nice ... so in the real middle of French Riviera....
I think since you last visit is pretty changed ( I guess, as I am here since 99/2000 )...

Regarding the car, I called a friend of mine (mechanic) that has the OBD to read the code... and .. once I got there, the the problem of the dash board disappeared :shock: . I wished off the engine, restarted , again no problem ..
We attached the OBD to see if some codes have been raised .. none ... no problems ....

Is unbelievable , most probably is due to the battery that got a shock ( low temperature+aging ) .... I bought a new battery , tomorrow I will put it to see if the problem will appear again.......

Sunazur
Author:  Sunazur [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Some updates ...
I went to buy a new battery ( of course no way to get to get easily the Optima here in europe except to be readyto spend couple of hundrets in the official Jeep spare parts store ) .
I bought a 60Ah classical, maintenance free ( optima has 50Ah nominal ).
All the issues seems to be solved .. let's see.... :roll:

I the first time I have to change a battery after *only* 3 years ( in such a mild climate )
Author:  Sunazur [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Ok, after the battery change I thoght the problem was solved.
Actually not, today I took the car and *again* the ETC warning start to blink.... :?
The car does not give any particolar sign of malfunction . :wink:
If I switch off the engine and restart it the problem persists :| except once get enough warm after a small driving ( more than 2 miles ).
In this case the problem disappear.

When I brought the car to mechanic ( that has ODB Tool ) the problem could not be tracked as the engine was enough warm.... and no fault codes have been found

A question , the problem of a faulty glow plug is reported in any case?? ( CEL not on ) ....

I really believe is a problem of a glow plug , but actually how it can be detected ?? a faulty glow plug is faulty with/without a warm engine isn't it ? :juggle:

I think I have to convince the guy to come and see in my place the issue. ( cold engine )
Author:  DOC4444 [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
The most common cause of ETC light display on CRDs is simultaneous application of throttle and brake. If you have a manual trans, this is unlikely, but if you have an automatic gearbox and left foot brake, it will happen from time to time. It does not hurt anything. If this is the cause, you just switch off, wait a minute, restart and the light will be out.

DOC
Author:  Sunazur [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Out friends from AUS have the same issue :

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/sho ... 228&page=2
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
To measure Glow Plugs - trace a wire from any glow plug up to the 4:1 connector
pull the connector and measure the resistance from the contact to ground
good will be ~0.5 to 2.0 ohms (many Ohm meters cannot read that low)
bad is commonly >200 ohms.

to confirm that you have the right plug - pull the connector off the plug you suspect and remeasure that line should be open. (many wiring harnesses have the 1-4 backwards)
Author:  Sunazur [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Hello friends, here some updates :
Indeed is a problem of GP .
I pull out the connector and I measured the resistance between the ground and each of the 4 male pins coming out from the connector (directly wired with the GPs)
Three of them have a very small resistance ( around 0.5/2 ohms ) .. One shows around 190/200 ohms......

One is faulty... but which one ?? :dizzy:

I find impossible to directly unplug each one to measure.
Facing the plug ( the male one ) the faulty one is the pin numbered ( in my schema ) 4
______
| 1 2 \
| 3 4 /
--------
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Well - I think the label on the connector is fairly accurate - so it says #4 is bad - then trace the wire for #4 to the glow plug and pull the cap off (4 is hard to get to)
now remeasure the resistance - if you got the right cap - 3 will now measure ~1 ohm and the 4th will be open, and that will be the bad plug.

if it's not, and 2 are 1 ohm and 1 is 200 ohm - then the cap is mislabeled - reconnect the glow plug cap - and try the other end #1 should be easy to reach.

repeat until you have positively identified the bad plug.

see if you can find a new glow plug - we're having problems here - Jeep is preparing to change from old Ceramic to New metallic - so many parts suppliers are out of the old plugs.

if you can find one and carefully replace it. If not - you may have to go to the dealership and see when they will have the new style.
Author:  Sunazur [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Ok , thank you .. will keep updated.....

One question, the GP#4 is the one nearby the alternator or the one close to the diesel filter ? :juggle:
In this case, in order to access it, will be enough to remove the filter body just unscrewing the two screws that keep it fixed with the firewall? or I have to follow the same instructions like I have to replace the filter itself ?

Regarding the GPs I think I have already the metallic ones ( I saw the Bosch relay/element close to the GPs connector )
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
#1 should be the front near the radiator,/alternator, #4 back near the firewall/ fuel filter.

(although some of the wiring has been backwards on Glow Plugs - electrically it doesn't matter - just when you're troubleshooting)
Author:  Sunazur [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ...
Hello, thank you for the answer ...

The #4 is located , as you said close to the fuel filter.

I did not manage to reach it with hands in order to unplug it and double check its resistance (200 ohms)

As I was already planning ( AKA gathering info on LostJeeps :SOMBRERO: ) to replace the filter Is a very good occasion ;-)

Some question as they came out from my kj related thoughts.. :

1) Does the GP is accessible if I remove *only* the filter , or I have to remove as well the EGR (?) valve that seems to be close ?
2) Ho to unscrew it, with which kind of key ( tube key ? english key ?)
3) Considered the position, does is really needed to have a dynamo-metric key? or in the real life is just enough to screw the new one as strong as I normally do , for example, for the spark plug in the scooter ( maybe is diesel the pressures are much different :roll: )
4) regarding the filter change, I was wondering how to fill the new filter in order to avoid air into ( motor won't start )

5) I saw (heard) that there is a kind of purge valve in the filter body, might be useful to allow to the new filter to be filled in the meantime you keep pushing the close located 'mushroom' ??

Getting challenging..... :5SHOTS:
Author:  ATXKJ [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
I haven't changed the #4 plug - so don't know what you have to pull.
I changed #2 and just snugged it lightly - just like a spark plug - no Torque Wrench needed.
don't know what
Quote:
key ( tube key ? english key ?)

I used ~standard deep sockets (I think it was 10mm)

on new fuel filters - you have to use the pump on the top of the fuel head to pump air out
pump until it feels solid - use the vent on the side to let air bubbles out.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=35702
Author:  Sunazur [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ETC Blinking... and wondering why ... butterfly related
Ok, very clear !!! just few questions :

1) Why to put Stanadyne Fuel Additive drop on the oring ? Actually here in europe I do not know exactly , might be ok some small quantity of silicon grease?
2) I can eventually refill the new one ( after of course having put the water sensor back in the bottom ) with the diesel spilled from the old one ( w/o water)
3) I hope it will accessible the GP4 once the old filter have been removed
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