Engine power loss

aaronvon · **Posted:** Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:39 pm

My 06 CRD has been acting up off and on for a year now. In situations like accelerating up hills at highway speeds and accelerating fast to pass on the highway my engine will lose power. I will be able to pull off the pass or make it up most of the large hill and then my engine will start to lose power. It doesn't die completely, just begins to slowly lose power no matter how much I push down the pedal. At this point i will pull over turn off the engine, wait a few seconds, and then restart. This brings everything back to normal and I continue on. I will get the CEL with the code P0069, which i'm sure a lot of people are familiar with.

I use the edge trail and usually keep it in tow mode, what they say is for everyday driving. I've tried running without it and this still happens. I've been in the last two months been using the ORM and the EHM along with regular MAP sensor cleaning, originally thinking this was my problem. I'm going to now unplug my chip again with a freshly cleaned MAP sensor to see if this works along with the ORM & EHM. I'm not a mechanic, electrician actually, but I wouldn't think the chip would make this happen. Do you think I could have a faulty MAP sensor that malfunctions when the engine is at higher rpm's and then kicks in a safety mechanism?

Any ideas?

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:00 am

If your fuel filter has not been changed within the last 12,000 miles, then that may be the cause.

flman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:47 am

racertracer wrote:

If your fuel filter has not been changed within the last 12,000 miles, then that may be the cause.

X2 fuel filter, or air in fuel.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:08 am

This happens whenever you climb long steep grades in the #3 position.... don't do it... the instructions also say not to. The other stuff suggested has zero impact on your situation. I drive around with the Edge module in #2 position, the only time I use #3 is to smoke out the dink with the jammin sonic assault at the red light.... the windows are usually up at the next intersection.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:10 am

for the record, I didn't post "dink"

aaronvon · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:42 pm

What do you mean by X2 fuel filter? I have changed my filter recently. Less than 10,000k.

I never throw it into #3 but always drive around in #2. I've had this happen without the chip even installed too. I've unplugged it yesterday after a fresh MAP cleaning and i'm about to take it on the highway. I'll let you know if it happens. I really have to put the pedal down for this to happen. It never happens in casual driving.

What makes you guys think it's the fuel filter? I'd think if there is air in my fuel the engine would die, or at least lose power than gain it back after a few seconds at lower rpm. Also why would a restart make it ok again?

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:57 pm

Do you have a boost gauge and an EGT gauge? I had one of those Trailjammer chips too, and while I don't believe it directly caused my turbo to fail, I too had similar limp mode problems. The trailjammer chip modifies the boost signal from the MAP, and can allow the turbo to spike FAR above the safe limits. I believe the engine may have another safety net built into it that tosses it into limp mode b/c the signal can get right to the limit of the acceptable range. Either that, or there is a combination of sensor data other than the MAP that is NOT modified, that tells the computer that something is amiss with a sensor (the MAP) and that is what causes the limp mode.

Boost spikes above 27psi can be bad for the turbo. In a normal operation, the computer would sense the pressure run-up and start opening the VNT to slow the spike. With the modification to the signal, the spike is allowed to progress to a higher point before the computer is shown the spike... And it is not capable of letting the pressure out fast enough then to slow the spindle of the turbo. The computer is trying to protect your turbo from overspeeding. Don't ignore this. The turbo on our CRDs is operating very close to the design limits already, and it doesn't fail politely.

My turbo failed by snapping the turbine (exhaust side) wheel right off the shaft, AT SPEED. This wheel shouldn't ever separate from the shaft, it is high-speed welded together. When that happened, my turbo began rapidly leaking oil into the exhaust, and within 1 mile had sent a full gallon from my engine into oblivion.

I had neither a boost gauge or an EGT, and while they may not have directly indicated the failure when it happened, it WOULD have shown me the spikes as they were happening before the failure, and I would have known that something wrong was being allowed to happen. Personally, I would not use those chips on anything higher than setting 1, which also modifies the signals. If you floor the throttle, the edge may not be able to compensate as fast as the mechanicals can, and our engines have a scary amount of power that they can unleash.

Having it happen without the chip doesn't prove anything, you have to leave the chip out for a while - The computer can adjust the performance over time. I believe the code you posted is an overboost code.

flman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:03 pm

aaronvon wrote:

What do you mean by X2 fuel filter? I have changed my filter recently. Less than 10,000k.

X2=I agree.
Fuel filters do not have a definitive life span, they only last until they plug up. I have seen many of filter go less then 10K.

Actually my hot tune can cause a LHM on a long uphill grade, pedal to the metal. The factory fuel system is just not capable of delivering enough fuel on a tuned or chipped ECM.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:08 pm

P0069 Map/ Barometric Corelation

Got the solution for you! The computer is comparing the readings between the modified (your MAP sensor) and the non-modified sensor in the airbox.

Your ECM has TWO different MAP sensors to choose from, unfortunately one of them is not located in the service manual OR in the turbo's pressurized air path. This second sensor is used to calculate the boost and the airflow values for the emissions control nanny system. This sensor is located on the side of the airbox and is referred (on here) as the "Mercedes Logo Sensor" and it is a MAP sensor. There is a Mercedes part number on it, and can be sourced from a Mercedes dealer if your local Mopar dealer can't find it in their parts images.

I replaced mine with one from a Mopar dealer, sorry but I didn't get a Mopar # for it tho. I got lucky and the tech knew how to find it in their system. It is NOT the MAF that is in the intake tube, OR the MAP that is on the back of the intake. IIRC, it was fairly affordable, unlike the MAP where they charged me $175 for a stinking sensor. :furious:

aaronvon · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:58 pm

Nice Job!

A friend of mine was actually telling me that I must have a second MAP sensor some where. So are you saying now that this is more the fact that this "MLS" has failed and needs replacing, or possibly the MAP sensor. Or are you still thinking the chip is causing a difference in these 2 readings?

I can tell you think the EDGE is a bad idea, i'm starting to think so too. I just finished some aggressive highway driving with out it and had no "limp home" happen. Definitely noticed the drop in power too.

aaronvon · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:16 pm

Oh and no gauges for EGT and boost pressure. I understand there are some good all in one gauges out there. Any suggestions?

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:21 pm

You want power and no headaches.... get a GDE Hot tune.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:01 pm

I did enjoy the power that the edge gave my CRD, but you are correct - I don't think they are a good idea anymore. If that is the cause of my turbo failure, which lead to the loss of my engine, that is a pretty good reason to avoid them.

I now have the GDE eco tune, and it is a fantastic alternative that is a completely safe option. Tested and proven to stay within the safety margins of the CRD engine.
The function of the MLS as you termed it are not entirely known, but it does seem possible that it has failed on you. When I had replaced my engine and no longer had the Edge installed, I would occasionally have intermittent power loss issues without a code, and they would clear when I reset the key as well. Once i replaced that sensor, the problems did clear up.

It is entirely possible that it is the MAP sensor instead, but the MLS is cheaper. There are a fair number of people that have had problems with the connector on that stupid thing getting tweaked when working on the air filter or around the CCV - The connector is pretty weak.

As for gauges, I have two separate gauges from Glow Shift gauges, they are nice and functional, decently affordable.

aaronvon · **Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:44 am

Thanks for your help. I'll keep the edge out of there and change the MLS. I'll drop a line a little after changing the MLS and let you know if things have improved.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:52 am

I'm honestly sorry to hear that it wasn't just me with the boost spike problems from the edge. I wouldn't have a problem using it (with a boost gauge anyway) if our turbo was a little more robust or even a little larger / slower-spinning at the expense of maybe some spool-up. The VNT system keeps the turbo spinning decently even at low revs, so even at idle the thing is moving at a decent clip. With a slightly larger turbo, the shaft might not be so close to the failure point that a fooler chip like the edge COULD be safe to use.

Best of luck swapping that sensor, I'm 90% certain that you won't have any problems after swapping it. Before buying the new one tho, have a go at wiggling the connector and spritzing it with some carb cleaner on the pins to see if maybe it was just a buggy connection. If you were having it without the chip but it went away, could be that the connector has come unclipped. Save you some money...

Engine power loss

Who is online