Has anyone gone for all out POWER???

NotPicky · **Posted:** Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:34 pm

Just wanting a great recipe for the most power out of my CRD. Tranny is being built. The exhaust and Intake are modified. Got drag racing on my mind and diesel in my veins. Didn't know if anyone has tried bigger injector nozzles, compounds or big single turbo, computer tune with pressure box? If there is head studs available for the little 4 cylinder? What might be Max power that this 2.8L is capable of. Just curious i guess. Some dyno numbers would be great. (Got done reading Diesel Power Mag LOL)

woodtick · **Posted:** Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:50 pm

Call GDE and talk to Kieth. I would think he has some ideas.

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/g ... d=perfComp

This will show you a tune and turbo combo he offers w/ 400 lb/ft of torque :shock:

MustangPunk · **Joined:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:44 pm **Posts:** 11

I've thought about this... (a lot of time to ponder in Iraq ;/) I'm sure my wife wouldn't like it since she drives it most. Though I wondered ditching the VGT for a compound setup, and pushing it as far as she goes... I know there's tunes available for the PCM but they're pretty cookie cutter at the moment it seems, I've tuned hundreds of PCM's with HP Tuners and EFI Live, mostly gassers but have done a few Duraturds also :p. I don't know how exactly say GDE finds tables etc and changes the memory of the ECU, but they can control plenty of parameters from what I've seen, and could handle a custom tune it seems. I just wish, I had control of the PCM itself, those two programs spoiled me so buying just one tune gets to me, lol... I know pushed to the max, fueling could be a concern also, and if needed sourcing new injectors for it would have me lost... I would also totally ditch the emission controls. I've done a few turbo fabrications, so I don't think the actual building of the compound setup to be that difficult even with it's limited space, I'm not afraid to relocate things. I know if the turbo ever takes a dump I may really consider it assuming I can make it all work. Running it by the wife may prove even harder though, haha

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:16 am

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:28 am

Assuming you can strengthen the bottom end with better rods, the weak link is gonna be
the aluminum head. Better head bolts or studs my help keep it from "lifting" but you would
also want a thicker deck.
Filling all the coolant passages may help strengthen the head also, but then you are stuck
with a pure drag racer. :roll:

MustangPunk · **Joined:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:44 pm **Posts:** 11

flash7210 wrote:

Assuming you can strengthen the bottom end with better rods, the weak link is gonna be
the aluminum head. Better head bolts or studs my help keep it from "lifting" but you would
also want a thicker deck.
Filling all the coolant passages may help strengthen the head also, but then you are stuck
with a pure drag racer. :roll:

Does anyone know the deck thickness of the head? I know head lifting (pissing water) all to well with turboed LSx motors (stock bolt pattern heads) I've dabbled with. I mean that would not be my main cocern at the moment, I just wonder how much can we pick up until till we start to get into problems and limits of stock internals. Then from there work to band aid, or fix them.. Getting head studs made, then how much more can we get? etc I've never actual been inside this engine yet, its gotta be a skirted block right, Im sure? You can do quite a few things, not horribly expensive to prevent main caps from walking. (assuming there of a decent quality form the get go) Whats the make up of the factory rods? Powdered metal? The crank also, cast of forged etc? Alot I don't know about the engine internals. Both can take quite a beating before reaching their limit in some engines, Im just very curious. In my opinion, in the scheme of things a custom forged rotating assembly that can be rebilable and take serious abuse is not totally outrageous compared to the already outrageous prices of just a factory rotating assembly kit... I just want to find out how much power can we get until we got to worry about the engines stock limits.. Then got from there. I'd really like to find out, but I got to get my butt back stateside first haha..

flman · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:42 am

LibertyCRD wrote:

:POPCORN:

X2

I can just see another "Waiting for the Bad News" thread coming out of all of this. You should get you self a 5.9 Dodge Cummins if you wanna play with power, the other engines are gonna melt. :dead:

MustangPunk · **Joined:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:44 pm **Posts:** 11

flman wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

:POPCORN:

X2

I can just see another "Waiting for the Bad News" thread coming out of all of this. You should get you self a 5.9 Dodge Cummins if you wanna play with power, the other engines are gonna melt. :dead:

They run the best before they let go usually haha... I fully know the risks involved with searching for more power. Like I said I'm just curious how far you could take the stock internals on this engine, last time I checked a factory cummins is like any other engine it isn't meltdown proof... May it be able to take more power in stock form then this little VM Motori, yeah noted, but has anyone even pushed this motors limits? The bad news I see from this engine really is not internals, (besides the timing belt) it's stupid emission controls, and the factory calibration of the PCM. It's not as backyard mechanic friendly when performing some fixes without proper tools, but to me a internal combustion engine is an IC engine is a IC engine.. It's nothing to complex, in my opinion. The real shame is the pricing and avaiablity of the parts to service it...

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:10 pm

Of course, when the DuraTrash diesel came out back in '01...we all said the same thing. A diesel engine with aluminum heads??? Are they smoking crack?? Another brilliant idea by General Motors. Figures..

And then what?? Those engines have survived for a decade now with TONS of power thrown at them, and even sled pulling, etc. They are still around and largely unchanged 10 years later, and are currently destroying any pickup truck on the market in real world tests.

So the moral of the story is... who knows?? Maybe this VM engine will take more abuse than people think. Only one way to find out... let somebody else push one to the limit while we watch. :-)r

MustangPunk · **Joined:** Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:44 pm **Posts:** 11

LibertyCRD wrote:

Of course, when the DuraTrash diesel came out back in '01...we all said the same thing. A diesel engine with aluminum heads??? Are they smoking crack?? Another brilliant idea by General Motors. Figures..

And then what?? Those engines have survived for a decade now with TONS of power thrown at them, and even sled pulling, etc. They are still around and largely unchanged 10 years later, and are currently destroying any pickup truck on the market in real world tests.

So the moral of the story is... who knows?? Maybe this VM engine will take more abuse than people think. Only one way to find out... let somebody else push one to the limit while we watch. :-)r

That's what I'm saying!! :p I do think my wife would straight up murder me if I touched it though, plus I got another project I'm working on, just ordered a pretty big and not cheap turbo for it a few weeks ago, that was hard for her to justify (they just dont understand lol) I don't know how my wife bears with me, haha...

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The aluminum head is the weak link on the VM engine. The bore is quite large for a 4 banger, so the cyclic loading from cylinder pressure can fatigue the head over time. Cracks ususally appear between the valve bridge. If pushing more than 225 horsepower the risk increases. With a cast iron head (none exist for this engine) the engine would be good for more power. One major issue is the torsionals produced by a 4 cylinder, these can cause driveline issues, especially with the trans. The stock head is also flow limited above 3600 rpm due to intake port geometry. The wife can't get mad for dreaming...

europachris · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:15 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

And then what?? Those engines have survived for a decade now with TONS of power thrown at them, and even sled pulling, etc. They are still around and largely unchanged 10 years later, and are currently destroying any pickup truck on the market in real world tests.

So the moral of the story is... who knows?? Maybe this VM engine will take more abuse than people think. Only one way to find out... let somebody else push one to the limit while we watch. :-)r

The engine can only take part of the credit - although Isuzu knows how to build good diesels - the coup de gras was installing the Allison behind it. Finally Ford and Dodge started at least putting slushboxes behind their diesels that wouldn't grenade all the time, but they still can't touch the Allison for smoothness, robustness, and simply doing the job of a properly engineered, heavy duty automatic. Nothing gives a vehicle a black eye more than a reputation for blowing up trannys (well, except maybe engines).

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:18 pm

All out power out of these little motors would be very intresting to see. I mean the suncoast TC are rated for well about what the little motors have ever produced even through GDE. But i am sure Kieth is more then willing to help you experiment with yours of course and then help you to refine it some more. But the idea of a tuner in a CRD is not very practical the simple workings may be the same as a larger diesel but there are a lot of complexities to these little italian 4 cylinders. But a set of custom heads and bolts to match aren't out of the question. A good diesel tuning shop should be able to help you in building a proper head with larger ports. But then you have to push more air so bigger exhaust and bigger intake and turbo. So more oil cooling and engine cooling or maybe a water methanol injection for those good hard runs and to keep your EGT down. Or maybe propane injection to start with GDE turbo kit and hot tune. I have thought about all of this before and when my turbo finally gives up the turbo kit goes in. There are so many possiblities that this could drive some one to :5SHOTS:

. BUt if you do go anywhere with this we need pictures or it didn't happen :twisted:

.

P.S. Yes the Duracrap can make good power and so can the Cummins and Powerstroke if only the duramax could keep its pulleys on like all the rest :jester:

NotPicky · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:55 pm

Ya my dream consists of bigger nozzles, compounds with maybe a hx35 or hx40 on top, modified cp3, ported head, and head studs. Would be cool to crank out 300 rwhp. Bet if I showed up sporting a Liberty at a NHRDA drag race and give some VWs a run that would turn some heads. :ROTFL:

Anyways back to reality. Still lots of fun modding this little 4 cylinders. Prolly should go find a old Cherokee and swap in a 3.9L cummins (4bt) and mod the hell out of it.

Has anyone gone for all out POWER???

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