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Diagnostic tools or Software?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59197		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GoodCRD [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Diagnostic tools or Software?
I want to compare the diagnostic tools and software available for our Liberty CRD's. I would like to be able to get real time instantaneous sensor information and the ability to display injector response time information. I want the ability to run a cylinder cut out test as a PM tool to keep my liberty running in top shape. Cost is definitely a consideration. I though about playing around with hyperterminal and accessing the system that way through an old laptop. What can a bored EE do with his spare time! But who wants to reinvent the wheel anyway.
Author:  flman [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
GoodCRD wrote:
I want to compare the diagnostic tools and software available for our Liberty CRD's. I would like to be able to get real time instantaneous sensor information and the ability to display injector response time information. I want the ability to run a cylinder cutoff test as a PM tool to keep my liberty running in top shape. Cost is definitely a consideration.


The 06 CRD uses CAN, and the 05 is OBDII I think. I am sure others will chime in?
Author:  JL Rockies [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
I'm pretty sure that there's already a thread on this topic somewhere...
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
Yeah there's hundreds of threads on about everything CRD related :lol:
But just try to find them :-)r

There's an old thread in the TECH section that will tell you a litttle. Remember that section is for ANSWERS ONLY, NOT QUESTIONS.
As mentioned the 06 uses CAN bus.
The real problem as I understand is the CRD has a Kludged data bus with two master's :cry:
Both the Bosch ECM and the Chrysler TCM want to be boss and DC came up with a work around that kind of works some time maybe :|
It's been mentioned there's about 7 controlers in a 06 CRD :dizzy:
No scanner that anyone has found yet will work longer then about 15 minutes of driving before it locks up. At that time the TCM may go into limp mode and drop to third gear at any speed.

The person that seems to know the most about the CRD's data bus is GMCTD and he's been busy the last year or so and his CRD got struck by lightning but if you p-mail him you may get a reply.

If you have any VW friends see if they have a VAG-COM and borrow it. It will only work with the CRD in it's obdii mode and that only has sensor readings that I've been able to see but you may get further :ALONE:

I'm sure some person in this world has found a way to communicate with the BOSCH ECM and posted it on the WWW :POPCORN:
You might want to ask on a Dodge Cummins group how Chrysler handles a Bosch ECM and Chrysler TCM assuming they use a Bosch ECM.
Author:  GoodCRD [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
I'm not a communications guy, but sounds to me like a timining issue with the IEDs and master units on the data bus. Whatever unit is being used to interface with the devices on that bus need to match. If not the data will be corrupted due to two or more devices transmitting at the same time. I haven't worked on engine management systems in about 15 years. I need to do some catching up. You don't have a stable comm link. I don't think it is in the software. GDE should have the best solution. What type of Data Bus and protocol are we dealing with?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
GoodCRD wrote:
I'm not a communications guy, but sounds to me like a timining issue with the IEDs and master units on the data bus. Whatever unit is being used to interface with the devices on that bus need to match. If not the data will be corrupted due to two or more devices transmitting at the same time. I haven't worked on engine management systems in about 15 years. I need to do some catching up. You don't have a stable comm link. I don't think it is in the software. GDE should have the best solution. What type of Data Bus and protocol are we dealing with?



I think I remember reading they put one of them to sleep :D
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
GoodCRD wrote:
I'm not a communications guy, but sounds to me like a timining issue with the IEDs and master units on the data bus. Whatever unit is being used to interface with the devices on that bus need to match. If not the data will be corrupted due to two or more devices transmitting at the same time. I haven't worked on engine management systems in about 15 years. I need to do some catching up. You don't have a stable comm link. I don't think it is in the software. GDE should have the best solution. What type of Data Bus and protocol are we dealing with?


PCI with J1850:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Automotive_ ... 0_Bus.html
Author:  GoodCRD [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
Thanks.

So I think I want a PC based software product that allows me to configure my comm port parameters. This should give me the ablility to compansate communication timing issues. Now it is time to check out some products like pro scan. I want the same abilities the Pro-Link tool gave me with DDEC. I just don't want to put out 4k to 7K to do this. $200 to $500 should work.
Author:  GoodCRD [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
Has anyone used Auto Enginuity's PC-based Scan Tool #ST06-USB with the Enhanced Chrysler Expansion option. It comes out to $479.90. I put in an email to them to find out if if can perform a cylinder cut out test.
Author:  Turbo Tim [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
Yup, I have one and you can't do that. There is very few things you can change or test. You can look at just about everything but no tweaking (unlike the Vag-Com on my VW TDI).

The best thing you can do is find a DRB3.

Somebody chime in here but to my knowledge there is nothing that will do what the DRB3 will do.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
The DRBIII is the most capable. Not aware of any aftermarket scan tools that come close.
Author:  DOC4444 [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
I used a VAGCOM from a friend to check coolant temp a while ago without difficulty. Over the weekend I used to check boost. It would only last 2-3 min before locking up and requiring restart of the motor to reset. Very frustrating, but I got what I needed.

DOC
Author:  GoodCRD [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
Would anyone know what address is reserved for the dbr3 on the data bus. Also what processors are being used in the ECM and tcm? Hopefully it is of the 68000 family. I will attempt to control the ECM to shut down the injectors individually without going into limp mode and than compare injector information to see which injector is not working properly.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
If you have a scan tool that can clear the codes, here is a basic injector contribution test you can run:

1. Warm-up the engine witha short drive
2. Put in park and have someone press accel pedal to hold engine rpm at 2000.
3. Have a second person unplug one injector at a time and record the engine rpm...make sure the pedal % does not move.
4. Repeat 3 times for comparison.

With each injector unplugged the drop in engine rpm should be similar. If one cylinder shows much less drop than the others it is weak.
Author:  racertracer [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
Now that is the way to go about testing for a bad injector for sure. No mess, minimal loss of time and it's cost effective.

Keith, you get a star for that little bit of info.

Thanks
Author:  painemann [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
I have Auto Enginuity but I need to get the Chrysler expansion to do anything with the CRD. IF someone already has it, what tests can you do with it besides clear codes?
Author:  GoodCRD [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
GDE your right on your two man procedure. I have already done that fixing the accelerator pedal in place, then disconnecting each injector one at a time. I want to be able to do the same thing with my laptop. It is kind of why people climb mountains. Plus I like playing with microprocessor based machines. Especially when it gets down to the machine code. I might crash the system or have to get my ECM reprogrammed if I screw it up. But that's ok.
Author:  GoodCRD [ Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
I received an email from Auto Enginuity about their PC-based Scan Tool #ST06-USB with the Chrysler Enhanced Expansion. It stated that the 05 is running an EDC16-C2 PCM and the Injector Kill Test is supported. I would like to verify this. I will ask them to prove it, by allowing me to return it for a full refund if it does not work.
Author:  GoodCRD [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
New reply from Auto Enginuity.

I cannot guarantee that it will work 100% on your vehicle because there are a lot of extenuating circumstances where it could fail and it’s not the tools fault. If you want it to work 100% buy the factory tool, a DRB3.

Not an exceptable product in my opinion.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Diagnostic tools or Software?
GoodCRD wrote:
New reply from Auto Enginuity.

I cannot guarantee that it will work 100% on your vehicle because there are a lot of extenuating circumstances where it could fail and it’s not the tools fault. If you want it to work 100% buy the factory tool, a DRB3.

Not an exceptable product in my opinion.

Your KJ does not have to comunicate with any scan tool but the DRBIII,sure it must be OBDII but only for reading generic codes and erasing them.

Hey it actually posted :goink: :goink: :goink: :goink: :goink: :goink:

Let's see how long it stays posted.
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