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Glow Plugs
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59740		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Quiksilver [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Glow Plugs
Sorry for creating a new post - but the others seem to be getting very muddled

Lets start with my situation.
I live in Cape Town - South Africa and it almost never drops below 50 degrees F.

3 part question:
At these temperatures do i NEED glowplugs - could I get away with unplugging the controller? I know I will get a CEL but that gets cleared by my Creader along with my ORM codes anyway after start up.

Well this have any negative effects on the engine besides maybe a extra crank or two on colder mornings. surely this is better than waiting for major glowplug failure.

What is the final verdict on the replacement metal glowplugs. If I do replace them in a few months once it gets colder and I have some spare cash I'd like to replace all 4 for the newer (hopefully improved) design.

appreciate your feedback - hopefully this will be the last problem for a while.
Author:  flman [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
You should be just fine, maybe more wear and tear on the charging and starting system, but if it starts OK, it does not matter. I used to have one of the Polaris ATVs, it had so much compression it did not need a glow plug, it used to be able to start all winter as I had a snow plow on it.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
Mine sits in a heated garage where it never gets below 40f :SOMBRERO:
50f seems to be the point where they are helpfull for a quick start :D
Author:  Quiksilver [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
Plan didn't work - as soon as I unplug the GP adapter it throws CEL's that won't be cleared.

Guess I'll just have to get my save on ...

Has the metal GP debate/confusion reached a conclusion?

Do we need a new harness adapter? or just new plugs.
Author:  Billwill [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
What happens if you pull out the relays that power the glow plugs?...I know the 2002 CRD has two relays...not sure about your model and I have not tried it myself.
In theory you should be able to bypass the outputs to the glow plugs and fit four large-wattage, low-ohmage resistors so that the controller thinks it is powering the glow plugs but is in fact only warming up some resistors....they only get power for a few seconds in any case? :?

I see your problem is only with GP #3....I saw on one of the forums that sometimes the glow plug harness is installed incorrectly so it may actualy be a different glow plug to #3 that is causing the problem...maybe try just one alternative resistor to take the place of the failing glowplug.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
Billwill,

I live in the Pacific NW near Canada. I started getting a GP fail code for two of mine in November or so of last year. I came on here and found that there was a new kit and that finding the old ones was hit and miss. I also found out that they were different so that you couldn't mix and match. Finally I found out that they would not be available until January. So I waited, still am. My Jeep started all winter just fine. I did plug in the heater most of the time for a couple of hours in the morning when it dropped below 20 F. Even down to -10 F I didn't have any starting problems.

I will probably get the kit this spring or summer and replace them all. The kit includes the 4 GPs and a regulator. What is not clear in my mind is if the ECM needs to be reprogrammed too.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
The kit and flash is available, I did mine about a month ago.
Author:  yakers [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
The new GPs are available, had it done but $500+, crazy price but happy it is done. Got the GDE eco tune with appropriate flash for the GPs. I have my old GPs, two are good, if someone just wants to try replacing one old bad GP to save a few $$. Will work for a while but eventually the new GPs will be needed. Some CRDs seem to go a long time without GP problems, hope my new GPs work 'forever'.
Author:  vgpwr [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=59640&p=665149#p665149

FYI
I just install Bosch Duraterm Glowplug Europeen 11Volts version feed with a 7Volts american controler.
At 70% to maximum capacity... those will be good for life !
Author:  CATCRD [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
vgpwr wrote:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=59640&p=665149#p665149

FYI
I just install Bosch Duraterm Glowplug Europeen 11Volts version feed with a 7Volts american controler.
At 70% to maximum capacity... those will be good for life !


So you found a metallic 11V glow plug that is an exact fit for our application and installed them in your CRD? No software changes? Sorry, my French is no good.
Author:  racertracer [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
CATCRD wrote:
vgpwr wrote:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=59640&p=665149#p665149

FYI
I just install Bosch Duraterm Glowplug Europeen 11Volts version feed with a 7Volts american controler.
At 70% to maximum capacity... those will be good for life !


So you found a metallic 11V glow plug that is an exact fit for our application and installed them in your CRD? No software changes? Sorry, my French is no good.



The question is: does it work and if it does, why hasn't Chrysler consider it.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
racertracer wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
vgpwr wrote:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=59640&p=665149#p665149

FYI
I just install Bosch Duraterm Glowplug Europeen 11Volts version feed with a 7Volts american controler.
At 70% to maximum capacity... those will be good for life !


So you found a metallic 11V glow plug that is an exact fit for our application and installed them in your CRD? No software changes? Sorry, my French is no good.



The question is: does it work and if it does, why hasn't Chrysler consider it.


I have heard this before from TDI forums.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
racertracer wrote:
The question is: does it work and if it does, why hasn't Chrysler consider it.


I think Chrysler wishes their 2 year experiment would just go away :JEEPIN:
Author:  dirtmover [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
racertracer wrote:
The question is: does it work and if it does, why hasn't Chrysler consider it.


Because that would be too easy. Why would they consider a simple drop in replacement that allows us to change only the broken plug when they can force us to buy a set of four, new module and FW update. Basically they're taking full advantage of their captive market. Now add to this the fact that there will be a number of people that change the plugs not realising that they need the rest of the kit which equates to even more sales.

The reality is that they made the bad design choice so this should be either a recall or they should at least be providing the FW update for free.
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
We need proof that this works.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
I've been following the various glow plug threads with some interest although glow plug use is not a big issue in North Florida but I do occasionally venture further north. As I understand it the original ceramic plugs are 7v and the new metal plugs are 5v which requires a new controller or flash to reduce the current 7v input to 5v and for those of use with a GDE tune that can be handled by an update to the tune. I've looked at the Bosch glow plug catalog (download at http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4842.htm) and their part #0 250 202 038 is listed as used in the Cherokee (export name for the Liberty) in the 2.5 engine from 3/2001-12/2004 and the 2.8 engine from 3/2003-12/2004. Other sources say it also fits the Chrysler Voyager 2.8 from 6/2004 to date. There was some chat last year about this plug (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54160&view=previous).

Now I get to display my ignorance. Seems to me the issue boils down to 1) is the Bosch 0 250 202 038 dimensionally identical to the current 2005-06 Liberty CRD 2.8 plugs or close enough to directly swap out; 2) will they work good enough if supplied with only 7v as opposed to 11v (underpower won't burn them out but I assume they simply won't heat up as much); and 3) is the resistance of these plugs different enough from stock to throw a CEL or otherwise make the electrical system unhappy. Someone that knows more than I would have to address those issues.

As to why Chrysler did not go this route; beats the heck out of me. If the dimensions are ok then at most there would be a flash to address the voltage difference and then there would be the benefit of using an existing plug that's already in the inventory over the pond.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
The 11 volt glow plugs are old technology, Chrsyler used this style on the early model Jeep CRD for the export market. Based on recollection these plugs have an operating temp around 1000 F and take 10 seconds of pre-glow to heat up. With the control system on the 2005-06 CRDs, the plugs would not be provided full power and will never reach 1000 F. For reference the stock ceramic plugs operate close to 1300 F and the fast metallic glow plugs are around 1100 F.

Ideally, if someone wanted to use the 11 volt glow plugs it would be better to have a stand alone control system/relay wired to the battery with a toggle switch for manual control. Still, it is stepping back in time and capability.
Author:  papaindigo [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
Oh well so much for that idea. Thanks for the clarity GDE.
Author:  Squeeto [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
papaindigo wrote:
Oh well so much for that idea. Thanks for the clarity GDE.


No, don't give up hope on this.
Being older technology doesn't mean worse. Sure the ceramics heat up faster and get hotter but they also are brittle and snap off possibly doing a lot of damage.

The Beru's that I showed on one of the other glow plug threads are metal encased ceramic powder and heat very well. The powder is packed in with the element to keep it from breaking due to vibration/ etc. The metal sleeve keeps the ceramics from doing damage.

Now if your questions 2 and 3 can be answered. Testing will see.
Author:  Quiksilver [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Glow Plugs
Squeeto wrote:
papaindigo wrote:
Oh well so much for that idea. Thanks for the clarity GDE.


No, don't give up hope on this.
Being older technology doesn't mean worse. Sure the ceramics heat up faster and get hotter but they also are brittle and snap off possibly doing a lot of damage.

The Beru's that I showed on one of the other glow plug threads are metal encased ceramic powder and heat very well. The powder is packed in with the element to keep it from breaking due to vibration/ etc. The metal sleeve keeps the ceramics from doing damage.

Now if your questions 2 and 3 can be answered. Testing will see.


viewtopic.php?f=64&t=59640&p=665149#p665149

translated from the linked post (Google Translate is your friend)
Quote:
Bosch Metal glowplug for 2005-2006 model Jeep CRD Europeen 11V powered controller 7Volts home
Photo taken with the engine running since 30s

I received the Bosch metal glowplug for 2005-2006 model Jeep CRD Europeen 11V,
physically, they are virtually identical to the original model 7V ceramics that are now available from Not-Chrysler Jeep;

Both models have exactly the same electrical resistance 1.2ohms cold, so do not give check-engine.


I don't mind if it takes 10 seconds to warm up - so long as it works and doesn't need to be replaced every 5 minutes - i have no start issues anyway

I cant see his photo's?
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