Timing Belt Replacement pics

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

Here are some pics from the Job...

x

some more pics...

bhc04 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:34 pm

Yikes! Now I can see why some of us pay to have it done. Me, never tackle a job this complicated. No tools, no time, no skills.

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

bhc04 wrote:

Yikes! Now I can see why some of us pay to have it done. Me, never tackle a job this complicated. No tools, no time, no skills.

I went a little overboard with the coolers but at least it made for some good pics and easy-- er job ha.

Patrick Henry · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:40 am

Looking at your pics I take it your witness mark on the crankshaft times at 2 o'clock instead of 3 o'clock?

I'm getting ready to dive in a second time. My cams timed into the plug holes and the allen wrench into the flywheel hole with the crankshaft mark at about 2:30. However the pump sprocket witness marks were off considerably with the original belt. So with the new belt I set it up per the instructions with the cams and crankshaft locked and rotated the pump sprocket to the witness marks (mark below the bolt head to the notch in the pump sprocket). After re-assembly the libby won't start. Sounds like it fires on one or two cylinders but won't go.

So back in I go to check if something slipped but I'm wondering if there is another way to check the pump timing setup.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:55 am

Patrick Henry wrote:

Looking at your pics I take it your witness mark on the crankshaft times at 2 o'clock instead of 3 o'clock?

I'm getting ready to dive in a second time. My cams timed into the plug holes and the allen wrench into the flywheel hole with the crankshaft mark at about 2:30. However the pump sprocket witness marks were off considerably with the original belt. So with the new belt I set it up per the instructions with the cams and crankshaft locked and rotated the pump sprocket to the witness marks (mark below the bolt head to the notch in the pump sprocket). After re-assembly the libby won't start. Sounds like it fires on one or two cylinders but won't go.

So back in I go to check if something slipped but I'm wondering if there is another way to check the pump timing setup.

The pump has no timing. The mark on the crank must be at 3 o'clock position so your crank must be one notch off. Try again turn from TDC 90 degrees clockwise and install the 90 degree pin in the flywheel. When belt is installed, turn crank two turns and recheck timing by installing the cam locks and flywheel pin. I did and no problem. I did noticed that I can feel good compression while turning the crank clockwise. Never turn counterclockwise.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:44 am

BlackLibertyCRD wrote:

The pump has no timing.

As they used to say on an old TV program STOP THE PRESS

Perhaps a re-read of this thread is in order. ALL 3 PAGES :dizzy:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58007&hilit=pump+timing

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:51 am

Here we go again. :ROTFL:

edit: Go back and look at the pictures and look at the size of the gears or maybe the number of teeth. The cam gears has to have twice as many teeth to stay in time of the crank every two revolution. Now it looks like the cp3 pump gear is about 2/3 the size of the cam gear. If the pump cam isn't a multiple or division of 2 to the camshafts it will be out of time as soon as you start the engine. While we are at it why don't we time the water pump. I'm sure there is a way. For me I will stick with the manufacture manual.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:01 pm

Yeah here we go again is right :dizzy:

It looks like you didn't get to page three like I said. So you won't have to go back and re read the whole thing here it is in a nutshell. I'm sorry but you are under a misconception :juggle:

Here's what GDE says in that thread.

Chrysler should hire the members of this forum to rewrite the CRD FSM. Based on the number teeth on the pulleys (24 for crank, 48 for cam and 36 for IP) the pump timing make will line of with the crank every 3 revolutions. However, to get the entire system in the correct timing position it will occur every 6 revolutions (where crank is 90 degrees after TDC, cam pins line up and IP is pointed at the timing mark).

A pump with the wrong timing can lead to lower power and higher noise as posted earlier in the discussion. This is due to the internal pressure wave in the rail. If the wave pulse is not timed with an injection event correctly, the pressure at the injector nozzle might be lower than desired when the injector is energized. This may lead to a lower pilot injection quantity or a missed pilot, thus leading to more combustion noise (typical pilot duration is 180-200 micro seconds). The main injection may have a lower actual injected quantity as well due to out of phase pressure wave (main injection pulse width can range from 200-1200 micro seconds depending on load). These pulse widths are for the Liberty CRD, other common rail applications can be different, depending on injector flowrate, solenoid actuation vs. piezo actuation, number of injections (two pilots, main and post), etc.

flman · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:57 pm

Thanks for tearing your Jeep to pieces to take nice pics for us :SOMBRERO:

If you put a line space or hit enter in between them they would be a little easier to view.

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

flman wrote:

Thanks for tearing your Jeep to pieces to take nice pics for us :SOMBRERO:

If you put a line space or hit enter in between them they would be a little easier to view.

DOne

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:43 pm

When you add in the firing order of each cylinder 4 piston engine compare to 3 piston pump and the fact that the pressure is regulated then the so called wave would be damping anyway. The high pressure fuel pumps sprocket on my 06 CRD do not have timing marks on it for a reason. It don't need to be timed for pulse, wave or when a cylinder fires.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:02 pm

painemann wrote:

flman wrote:

Thanks for tearing your Jeep to pieces to take nice pics for us :SOMBRERO:

If you put a line space or hit enter in between them they would be a little easier to view.

DOne

The pics are gone now.

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

racertracer wrote:

painemann wrote:

flman wrote:

Thanks for tearing your Jeep to pieces to take nice pics for us :SOMBRERO:

If you put a line space or hit enter in between them they would be a little easier to view.

DOne

The pics are gone now.

um I still see them... anyone else?

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

see all the dust on the cover over by the water pump... think its just from the belt wearing and working hard by the pump or is it the water pump bearing?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:15 pm

BlackLibertyCRD wrote:

Here we go again. :ROTFL:

If the pump cam isn't a multiple or division of 2 to the camshafts it will be out of time as soon as you start the engine. While we are at it why don't we time the water pump. I'm sure there is a way. For me I will stick with the manufacture manual.

Cam sprockets have 48 teeth and the pump has 36. BUT you must remember the pump has 3 pistons that you need to think about.

Regarding your pump not having timing marks. When you take the timing belt off take good pictures of that area and show us there's no marks.
If I had a dollar for every error that's been found in Chrysler publications I would be rich :ROTFL:

The first I found is in my owner's manual saying my engine has a 100k mile or some such number warranty :-)r

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:05 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

BlackLibertyCRD wrote:

Here we go again. :ROTFL:

If the pump cam isn't a multiple or division of 2 to the camshafts it will be out of time as soon as you start the engine. While we are at it why don't we time the water pump. I'm sure there is a way. For me I will stick with the manufacture manual.

Cam sprockets have 48 teeth and the pump has 36. BUT you must remember the pump has 3 pistons that you need to think about.

Regarding your pump not having timing marks. When you take the timing belt off take good pictures of that area and show us there's no marks.
If I had a dollar for every error that's been found in Chrysler publications I would be rich :ROTFL:

The first I found is in my owner's manual saying my engine has a 100k mile or some such number warranty :-)r

I say we time the water pump and get better results. I already did my timing belt and it runs fine without the GED tune or advice. I remember the cam gears have timing marks on them. Exhaust was pointing at 9:00 o'clock and the intake about 5:00 o'clock. Hmmm I wonder what that means?????

DynoPax · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:46 pm

Nice pics! :google:

This is exactly how I plan to do it: remove the whole front and have the space to properly work on the timing belt and other items. BTW, are you doing the water pump? Also, how do you proceed when putting back the condensor/trans cooler? Is it best to leave AC system empty and drive to a shop that will perform proper refill of gas & lube?

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:36 am

There is no need to remove the radiator, intercooler or A/C Condenser. You only need to drain the antifreeze if you do the water pump. The a/c stay charged so no need to refill.

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

DynoPax wrote:

Nice pics! :google:

This is exactly how I plan to do it: remove the whole front and have the space to properly work on the timing belt and other items. BTW, are you doing the water pump? Also, how do you proceed when putting back the condensor/trans cooler? Is it best to leave AC system empty and drive to a shop that will perform proper refill of gas & lube?

As already said, you don't Have to take the condenser out but it sure made it easier to do the job and see what I was doing. A local shop is going to charge me about $65 for a vac and fill. I don't regret removing it ha. I also did the mod to the hvac selector so that you have to push the snowflake A/C button to use the ac so it will not try to run unless that is pushed!

here is a pic of the timing mark on the fuel pump:

flman · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:08 pm

painemann wrote:

um I still see them... anyone else?

They look good on my PC.

Timing Belt Replacement pics

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