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Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
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Author:  vshockey10 [ Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
Alright guys my search for a tow vehicle that gets good fuel mileage when not towing has led me here. I have a 1991 MasterCraft Maristar 210. The boat alone weighs around 3300 lbs and is a 21' boat. Can the CRD liberty pull this safely? not only towing capacity but is the trailer going to pull this thing around ? the wheel base just seems so short it kind of scares me.

secondly what would you all recommend if buying a liberty CRD with 91K miles? I would like to get a tune (it seems GDE is the way to go?), renegade light bar, maybe do the timing belt right away? I'm a newbie here give me some pointers on this one. any and all info that can help me in this next purchase is appreciated
Author:  bugnout [ Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
CRD towing capacity is 5000lbs I've approached this a couple of times, don't think I've knowingly exceeded 5000.

I tow a 24 ft pontoon a couple of times a year, Its pretty light, and feel I need to pay attention as it is long, but never had any problem pulling it, staying at highway speed or overheating.
Author:  bhc04 [ Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
That's a pretty heavy boat and then adding the trailer, my opinion, you're gona be pushing it "big time" especially if you do anything other than flat ground. I had a Ski Nautique several years ago and my tow vehicle was a F-250 crew cab diesel. Towed very nicely on long trips but still let you know it was there climbing hills. I'd pass if I were you and get a more stout vehicle with min. 400+ lbs. torque and more vehicle weight. Your boat and trailer will weigh more than the Liberty.
Author:  Wobbly [ Sun May 01, 2011 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
Do a forum search. There are a lots of of posts on towing. There are a number of factors to consider, such as electrical trailer brakes, weight distributing hitch, GCVW, and axle loads.
My travel trailer weighs 5100 pounds and has a tongue weight of 650 pounds. It pulls without sway using a Hensley Arrow hitch. The fuel economy hasn't been that great, but there's a lot more drag from a travel trailer than a boat. It will be interesting to see how much the Eco Tune helps.

The procedure I used to determine whether this was a safe load is described in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51816&hilit=+towing
Author:  Rich [ Sun May 01, 2011 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
I towed a '49 Chevy Coupe Delux on a Uhaul flatbed car-hauler (surge brake) from Black River Falls Wisconsin to Minneapolis MN, 65mph on the cruise. Total towed package was around 4500lbs. The trip is on rolling hills, and I rarely felt 4th gear. Jeep showed 21.7mpg for the trip using GPS for mileage.

Towing my little military trailer with a full camping load, ~1800lb towed package, I rarely see below 28mpg, and don't really notice it is back there.

'05 CRD, GDE full-torque Eco, non-F37 TCM, V6 airbox, EHM, Dynomax Catback.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Sun May 01, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
The CRD will pull the boat no problem, the same vehicle is rated at 7000lb. towing capacity in Europe and 5000 lb. in the States. If you will be towing much we would highly recommend an aftermarket torque converter, or you can just wait until the TC shudder gets very easy to produce and then replace the TC about a year down the road. Our full torque eco tune is the best combination of towing capability and fuel efficiency, in the range of 17-20 while towing and high 20's to low 30's when not, depending on speed of course. A trans tune will also help by keeping the TC locked more and reducing the trans fluid temperatures. With that weight you may want a custom trans tune that will hold 4th gear until 65-70mph as this will keep your rpm in the best zone to minimize gear hunting.

A larger vehicle with an 8500lb. towing capacity is an option, but your fuel economy while towing will drop to 8-12mpg depending on the vehicle (gas powered). Good luck with your search.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
With 7,000 lbs. on the back of my CRD... it tows like a champ. 15 miles per gallon with that load going through the mountainous terrain of Tennessee. It will pull grades at 60 MPH and stay in 5th gear. These rigs are beasts.

The only thing you will have to make sure of is that you have trailer brakes and a good controller....the Jeep will need some help getting the load stopped. But pulling it will be a breeze. You won't even know it's back there.

I pulled into a Flying J truckstop and I was at almost 11,000 lbs. GCW and people were coming out of the store to see the Jeep. They were amazed at it and started asking me 100 questions. With that load on the CRD, I was getting the same MPGs that my Dodge Ram would get running down the road empty. :ROTFL:
Author:  geordi [ Mon May 02, 2011 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
LibertyCRD is right on the money. I'm the towing fool of this board, I've pulled OVER 7000 lbs (6800 lb generator with big cables) with my CRD, and it yanks it down the road like no big deal. 15mpg is about right for that weight, for the weight you are asking about, I would consider 19mpg as a safe guess, you shouldn't be much lower than that.

As far as the ratings go... YES, the "USA" rating is 5000 lbs. The Europeans actually TEST their vehicles and use them to their full capabilities, which is why they rate it at 7000 lbs, and you will be hard pressed to find a V8 powerstroke being used for small loads like they are here. The idea of short wheelbase being a detriment is based in ignorance of proper loading. I described the physics of towing in detail in another post, but it comes down to the load forces that are exerted across the hitch point based on the trailer loading. For a boat trailer, you won't have a lot of choice in how the weight is distributed, but having a full 10% of the trailer weight is not required for proper control. Having SOME weight on the tongue is important, if the tongue is zero-weight or negative (pulling up away from the ball) it will stress the ball lock, and COULD come off on the highway. Having a decent amount of tongue is all that is required, I usually strive for about 100 lbs, no matter how large the trailer is.

A good example of NOT using the 10% tongue number is on these large generators that are not adjustable for their tongue weights. That 6800lb generator only puts down about 250lbs of tongue weight. A smaller generator that I use a lot weighs in at 2500 lbs, and the tongue is only about 50lbs.
Keeping the towing vehicle LEVEL is what matters for good handling.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Mon May 02, 2011 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
My mods listed below show what I came up with to tow 7,000 lbs including a 7,000lbs hitch receiver.
With my InMotion Stage II tune and non F-37 TCM that shifts into 5th lock as low as 47MPH -50 MPH. Towing 5,000 lbs- 7,000lbs at 50 MPH - 55 MPH in 5th lock, I don't like the drive line vibrations, that is why I turn of the OD until I get up to 60MPH.
One thing I should point out is that my trailer is a flatbed beaver tail with little frontal area, not a large travel trailer with a large frontal area. Towing a 7,000lbs travel trailer would not be the same as my flatbed beaver tail.
You boat should be in between on frontal area.
Author:  dieseldoesit [ Mon May 02, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
warp2diesel wrote:
ith my InMotion Stage II tune and non F-37 TCM that shifts into 5th lock as low as 47MPH -50 MPH. Towing 5,000 lbs- 7,000lbs at 50 MPH - 55 MPH in 5th lock, I don't like the drive line vibrations, that is why I turn of the OD until I get up to 60MPH.

That is more then just the non-f37 tune... The non-f37 tune would unlock at 55 and lock at 57-58 mph.
Author:  mustang_gt_350 [ Wed May 04, 2011 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
Just hauled in a load of scrap with the CRD last week. Went over the scale @ 9700lbs Thats with a 18ft low boy steel car trailer, with electric brakes on both axles. I did keep it out of O/D while loaded as the road i was pulling on had turns and hills that you can't really get runs for and it would have had to shift due to road speed. It did way better than i thought it would, now its not my f-250, nor will it replace that but, it will do the job. Even the guy at the scrap yard commented on the jeep pulling the trailer saying "wow bet thats a handful" said nope, its a diesel :)

Maybe you can find a dealer that will let you hook up your boat and test it that way? The main thing is how often will you be towing? If its not all that much, you will be giving up a ton in MPG for a larger vehicle vs the libby
Author:  naturist [ Sat May 07, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
I tow a 21 foot travel trailer that has a gross weight of 5,000 lbs with no problem. Your boat and trailer will also be no problem.

Being full height, wind resistance on my TT is the major contributor to a 14 mpg fuel consumption. I towed a disabled Jetta on a dolly last fall and got about 19 mpg. In terms of both wind resistance and weight, that was probably fairly close to your boat and trailer, and I didn't even feel it back there.
Author:  danoid [ Tue May 10, 2011 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
The only thing that tows better than my CRD KJ is my CRD WK (Grand Cherokee). They both needed AirLifts in the back for the tongue weight, but the CRD (rated for 7700#) is a pulling machine.

They were available in the US 2007-2008.
Author:  europachris [ Tue May 10, 2011 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
I pulled a 12' U-haul utility trailer from one end of Illinois to the other (the LONG way) and was loaded up at 9600 lb. GCVW on the way back. I was hoping to gross out at 10,000 but ended up a little short. A good part of the drive was on I-39 running 65-70 mph and the rest was rural 2-lane gently rolling roads.

I was more than impressed with the stability and towing abilty of the Jeep. I was a little nervous since the trailer was bigger than the Jeep, but I never felt so much as a wiggle out of it, loaded or unloaded.

I just took it easy with both accelerating and stopping, and keeping it out of overdrive so it would lock up in 3rd gear and then hitting the button once I was at about 55mph so it would go right into 4th locked up.

With the load on the trailer centered (stoker coal loaded by a front end loader that could fit the Jeep in the bucket :shock: ) the back end of the Jeep barely settled an inch, so there wasn't much increase in tongue weight over empty. I pulled down 18 mpg overall, and I think it was actually better mileage with the load! The trailer had some pretty stout bias ply tires and I could really feel the rolling resistance of them. It was bad enough that I actually stopped to see if the trailer brakes were dragging. They weren't, so I checked inflation and one was a little low, but not bad. I topped them all up just to be safe.

I would certainly feel comfortable with even 7000 lbs. behind the CRD provided I had a good set of trailer brakes and a controller, stout shocks and struts on the Jeep, a real torque converter and maybe a GDE eco and trans tune. I have the F37 converter/flash and it did well on the haul, but if I was regularly towing, I'd like something I knew was bulletproof in there. I don't trust that cheezy rear diff, either. Too many "cost reduced" Chinese and/or Indian cast parts and bearings in there to hold up under severe towing heat and torque.
Author:  jinstall [ Tue May 10, 2011 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
I have towed 6100 for 70 miles up 7% and back down and rollling hills in Germany without a single issue. In Germany I am able to tow 7700lbs.
Author:  vshockey10 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
europachris wrote:
I pulled a 12' U-haul utility trailer from one end of Illinois to the other (the LONG way) and was loaded up at 9600 lb. GCVW on the way back. I was hoping to gross out at 10,000 but ended up a little short. A good part of the drive was on I-39 running 65-70 mph and the rest was rural 2-lane gently rolling roads.

I was more than impressed with the stability and towing abilty of the Jeep. I was a little nervous since the trailer was bigger than the Jeep, but I never felt so much as a wiggle out of it, loaded or unloaded.

I just took it easy with both accelerating and stopping, and keeping it out of overdrive so it would lock up in 3rd gear and then hitting the button once I was at about 55mph so it would go right into 4th locked up.

With the load on the trailer centered (stoker coal loaded by a front end loader that could fit the Jeep in the bucket :shock: ) the back end of the Jeep barely settled an inch, so there wasn't much increase in tongue weight over empty. I pulled down 18 mpg overall, and I think it was actually better mileage with the load! The trailer had some pretty stout bias ply tires and I could really feel the rolling resistance of them. It was bad enough that I actually stopped to see if the trailer brakes were dragging. They weren't, so I checked inflation and one was a little low, but not bad. I topped them all up just to be safe.

I would certainly feel comfortable with even 7000 lbs. behind the CRD provided I had a good set of trailer brakes and a controller, stout shocks and struts on the Jeep, a real torque converter and maybe a GDE eco and trans tune. I have the F37 converter/flash and it did well on the haul, but if I was regularly towing, I'd like something I knew was bulletproof in there. I don't trust that cheezy rear diff, either. Too many "cost reduced" Chinese and/or Indian cast parts and bearings in there to hold up under severe towing heat and torque.



well 39 is ideally where I would be pulling the boat up and down. I live in unincorporated Huntley. What mods are done to your jeep that you were able to pull that easily? I think I need to redo the trailer brakes for sure first. But now I have a completely stock 05 CRD. From what I have found on here I should try to get

-GDE eco tune
-GDE trans tune
-free flow exhaust
-eventually a suncoast torque converter
-some elephant hose routing thing I have to research a little more

so is the new torque converter a must before I tow 250 miles with the crd or are any of those mods a must before I tow it that far? I have used the jeep to pull it to my buddies pole barn in Hampshire from our hanger in Huntley but thats about it
Author:  europachris [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
vshockey10 wrote:
well 39 is ideally where I would be pulling the boat up and down. I live in unincorporated Huntley. What mods are done to your jeep that you were able to pull that easily? I think I need to redo the trailer brakes for sure first. But now I have a completely stock 05 CRD. From what I have found on here I should try to get

-GDE eco tune
-GDE trans tune
-free flow exhaust
-eventually a suncoast torque converter
-some elephant hose routing thing I have to research a little more

so is the new torque converter a must before I tow 250 miles with the crd or are any of those mods a must before I tow it that far? I have used the jeep to pull it to my buddies pole barn in Hampshire from our hanger in Huntley but thats about it


Jeep is totally stock except for the F37 recall and the SEGR module which I installed after the 4th EGR and third FCV valves. Elimination of the EGR made a HUGE HUGE difference - it no longer smokes like a tire fire and the oil actually stays clean (for a diesel). I already had the SEGR module before the GDE tunes were available, otherwise I'd have done those instead.

For the Eco tune, I'd imagine the Euro converter would be sufficient, maybe even the original F37 converter. The trick is to not let the engine lug in lockup while towing and be as easy on the go-pedal as possible. You don't have to baby it, but don't try to out accelerate everyone around you.

For the flat ground around here, you'll be just fine. The CRD won't even break a sweat.

Chris
Author:  camo [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
does anyone know where to find a class five hitch reciever for the CRD? i've been looking for one but all hits go for class three hitch over and over. any ideas?
Author:  onthehunt [ Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Might buy a CRD- Towing help!!
Buy a 1 ton dually. They usually come with a class 5 hitch. You might even be able to get the air brake option.
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