First troubles from my CRD... may need help.

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

I drove to work this morning with no issues. Time to go home I jump in and the thing cranks real slow. Original redtop Optima, so I checked the resting voltage after going back in for about 20 minutes and it was 12.35 or so. Borrowed a truck and went for a new battery and installed it.

Now she cranks faster, but still wont quite catch- sounds like it wants to, but it just stumbles and makes white smoke. The starter is getting quite hot. I started to pull it, but I could not get to the top bolt with the minimal tools I had. I will go back tomorrow and pull the starter- the rebuild shop isn't open until Monday anyways...

Kind of disappointing to be stranded on a Friday afternoon - temperature was 72F. :cry:

flman · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 6:17 am

Plugged filter? Air in fuel? Sounds like it is not getting enough fuel?

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

Thanks flman.

I am finding it hard to believe that it started all through the winter and yesterday morning fine, then on our first 70 degree day of the year- the battery, starter and fuel system all call it quits in a coordinated effort.

Was the slow cranking possibly caused by a partially hydrolocked motor? Possibly a bad injector pooled some fuel into one of the cylinders??

Has anyone else here had an injector go bad yet? What were the symptoms?

dkenny · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 11:53 am

I would 2nd the fuel filter..and air issue.

check what's easy first.

if the starter is cranking its most likely fine. the fact that is go hot could be from cranking too long.

the battery in my wife's jeep was fine one day then dead.

-dkenny

flman · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 2:51 pm

Roostre wrote:

Thanks flman.

I am finding it hard to believe that it started all through the winter and yesterday morning fine, then on our first 70 degree day of the year- the battery, starter and fuel system all call it quits in a coordinated effort.

Was the slow cranking possibly caused by a partially hydrolocked motor? Possibly a bad injector pooled some fuel into one of the cylinders??

Has anyone else here had an injector go bad yet? What were the symptoms?

Wax happens in the winter, and it has to be pretty darn cold out. Air and dirt don't discriminate with the temperature.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 5:03 pm

Some time ago I left open the fuel head petcock, after bleeding the fuel head of air. I thought I had closed it but drove away with it open, unknowingly letting air in the fuel that shut the motor down. The injectors weren't getting any fuel.

Took forever to get her going, a shot of starting fluid helped jump start the motr, ran rough for a while and let out lot's of white smoke but eventually it cleared itself out and everything was good again.

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

Thanks for the replies!

Figured it out and i will post it here in case anyone else runs into this problem. (Pics to follow.)

I went back with tools and a jack & stands. Jacked it up so I could get to the top bolt. Pulled the starter out and took it apart. Nothing wrong... checked the brushes and greased the gears while I was there and put it all back in the Jeep.

Hooked the battery back up and tried- same thing; cranked pretty good, but just chugged and chugged not quite starting. There was a squeaking sound (same as before) that had led me to believe the starter had an issue.

Decided to go after fuel at this point; I replaced the fuel filter with a new one, primed it and checked that the line to the pump was full. Cranked and still had the same almost start chugga chug crap going on- again with a little white smoke.

I got thinking that the squeaking sound might be a torque converter bolt that had backed out and was making it difficult to turn... I almost always find the problem is with the last item that I worked on or at least related. The problem with this theory is that we used loctite and were extremely anal about getting the 4 bolts torqued perfectly.

Decided to try it with the injectors unplugged- this time it didn't even try to start, so I plugged them back in. About this time a guy I work with came over to see what I was doing there on my day off. I asked him to crank it over while I listened. With him at the key I could hear that the squeaking was coming from the front of the motor. It was then that I spotted the slight rubber build up on the front of the thermostat area. When he stopped cranking I touched the area under the Viscous heater clutch and it instantly burned it. We pulled the belt off and the motor started right up easily. :roll:

I am somewhat embarrassed, but then again, I am not a professional diesel troubleshooter so cut me some slack please. :mrgreen:

Turns out that the bearing in the viscous heater clutch is burned out. It is just like an A/C clutch. Dealer couldn't find it when I called about it, so I pulled it out and headed down there- after a long search he finally found it- Part # 55037539AA. Net $777.00 but he could give it to me for $699!!! Ouch.

I didn't order the part. I am going to try and replace the bearing and coil myself. I recently repaired my wife's VW TDI A/C clutch for $35 this way. The only way to get the part is to buy the whole compressor-what a waste. I will take pics of the process and post any part numbers in hopes that others may avoid the $699 wallet bomb. :JEEPIN:

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

The guys from work were teasing me and saying that I needed to buy a Honda or Toyota... I laughed out loud when I pulled the Visc heater and it said "Made in Japan" right on it!! :mrgreen:

Here is a good shot showing the blown out bearing-

I pulled the pulley off using a two legged:

The coil was eaten into and coming apart:

Here is just the viscous heater:

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

The splined center shaft on the viscous heater turns with the kind of resistance you would expect of such a device. Grabbing the bolt with my fingers I can barely make it move. I pulled the back cover to take a look- it is filled with a clear silicon gel looking fluid and machined plates. No time for a photo as I didn't want to lose any fluid or contaminate anything.

I took lots of measurements:

Sorry about the crappy pics.

The bearing turns out to be 35mm ID X 52mm OD x 22mm thick and seems to match up to one used on VW/Audi/Mercedes Denso A/C clutches.

I pulled one off a '90 Jeep Cherokee to see how close it might be- the bearing ID was the same, but the OD was just larger and it was thinner. The coil is the right diameter, but a few mm too tall.

Why won't they sell us just the parts we need?? :?:

A $10 bearing and a $35 coil would put me right back on the road AND make it 1000x more likely that I buy another product from Jeep!!
(I actually found the bearing for $10 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/A-C-COMP ... 0422677966 )

09G21 is stamped on the coil housing, but I have found no leads on this part yet. I may go stomp around the junkyard and tear a few A/C clutches apart to see if I can find anything close. The wife's VW and the Cherokee both had the same "nose" and bearing ID. Both were 6 tooth serpentine.

Worst case scenario I could buy the $10 bearing and put the VH back in without the coil just to get the CRD back on the road until I can find one.

dieseldoesit · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 1:01 am

dang, that sucks. Cool find though, haven't heard of too many of those going out. That price seems ridiculous too.

I am interested to find out how this all turns out. Thanks for taking the time to post all the information and pictures!!

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

dieseldoesit wrote:

dang, that sucks. Cool find though, haven't heard of too many of those going out. That price seems ridiculous too.

I am interested to find out how this all turns out. Thanks for taking the time to post all the information and pictures!!

Just trying to give back in some small way... heaven knows I've been very grateful for similar tidbits that other members have posted!!

I will find and post a resolution. If nothing else, somebody that reads this might think to check their belts if they get a sudden slow cranking type symptom.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 7:38 am

You might see if this fellow found the repair parts and where. They might be the same:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-crui ... eater.html

You might also contact Denso USA.

Wrecking yards, or breakers as they are called in the UK, might also be a source for a used unit.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 7:39 am

Great work so far Roost .... thumbs up, for the heads up.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Here's a used one for sale in Poland for about $110:

http://www.gielda-czesci.pl/czesc/14523 ... wodna.html

flman · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 12:37 pm

So what does the viscous heater do? Run the fan faster in relation to coolant temp?

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

flman wrote:

So what does the viscous heater do? Run the fan faster in relation to coolant temp?

Nothing to do with the fan. It basically uses friction to heat coolant going to your heater core. I found this good explanation:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 1:59 pm

Up to a point the explanation is a good one. The viscous heater does provide an early, relative to an identical engine without one, heat boost to the coolant which 1) gets heat to the cabin quicker (no better than the plug in block heater which starts you with warm coolant IMHO) and 2) may shorten warm up time (same block heater comment) in colder areas than my location. I'm not sure I buy the implication that the engine won't reach or maintain operating temperature in cold weather without the viscous heater and even if true a partial block of the air flow to the radiator would take care of that or kaps tstat mod with a 192 degree tstat. Check out http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/62.page and comments from some who have pulled the viscous heater relay so it won't engage at all at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59654

Kind of a round about way of saying that I wonder, especially or those of us in warm areas, if doing away with the viscous heater entirely or running it without the clutch (effectively disengaged) upon failure would cause any harm. Of course if Roostre can come up with the $50 or so in parts needed to fix it rather than the stupid replace that would be wonderful for us all.

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

[quote="papaindigo"

Kind of a round about way of saying that I wonder, especially or those of us in warm areas, if doing away with the viscous heater entirely or running it without the clutch (effectively disengaged) upon failure would cause any harm. Of course if Roostre can come up with the $50 or so in parts needed to fix it rather than the stupid replace that would be wonderful for us all.[/quote]

In warm areas all you need to replace is the $10 bearing.

Everyone should check the temperature of that bearing- if you can replace it before it fails you will only need a new bearing. It s the bearing going to full failure that takes out the coil/stator.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 7:19 pm

You might check out the dimensions on these clutches to see if any would fit:
http://www.polarbearinc.com/PBPC/homepa ... ons_1.html

Some others are shown here: http://www.truckair.net/Index.cfm

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

Wobbly wrote:

You might check out the dimensions on these clutches to see if any would fit:
http://www.polarbearinc.com/PBPC/homepa ... ons_1.html

Some others are shown here: http://www.truckair.net/Index.cfm

COOL! Thanks Wobbly!

First troubles from my CRD... may need help.

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