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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:43 pm 
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So I'm getting ready to purchase the Dorman 924-704 Ignition Switch Actuator Pin, but I'm wondering if I really need to buy the Ignition Switch (as tZac suggests) as well. I couldn't find the part anywhere except via the RockAuto link in the original post, but it just popped up as a "suggestion" on Amazon when I added the Dorman actuator pin to my cart. The reference is to: Standard Motor Products US447 Ignition Switch. I guess it wouldn't hurt to spend the $17, but I'm just not sure if this particular replacement is any good (or necessary).

Here's the link to the switch on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-US447-Ignition/dp/B000C7YLEW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_2

Back to the original part... In looking at reviews and everything that seems to be available, I sure wish someone was making an actuator pin replacement that wasn't plastic. Seems like it's just going to break again. Perhaps it needs to flex, but it also seems like anything that gets TWISTED every time you get in your vehicle should be more durable than a plastic lollipop stick. :shock: I'm also not sure why this part even exists (except to break). More than a little frustrating.

Forgot to mention... the reason I'm buying the part from Amazon (other than it's easy and I've got free shipping through Prime) is that I don't have a security torx bit and so I need to buy that as well. NOTE: you will need a t10 (torx) security bit in addition to a regular t20 (torx) bit to replace this part. The "security" bit is just a bit with a hole in the center that accommodates the little shaft in the torx screw to deter tampering (obviously it doesn't work, since anyone can buy a torx security bit... I really wish manufacturers would stop trying to use "tamper resistant" hardware like this --EVERYONE has access to the tools required to bypass the issue; thus, it's just a PAIN IN THE KEESTER, not a security benefit).

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05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:42 am 
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I found a security torx set at Harbor Freight for about $7 - had the one I needed for the switch. :D

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:52 am 
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msilbernagel wrote:
I found a security torx set at Harbor Freight for about $7 - had the one I needed for the switch. :D

Mark


Nice. I'll have to look for it next time I'm there (which seems to be several times a week these days). :lol:

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06 CRD Sport (silver), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, DIY cross bars, LT245/75R16, Hayden fan HD clutch, lift pump, ProVent.

05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank when the key is turned
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:50 pm 
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tZac wrote:
My brother had the same problem on 2006 CRD. Problem was bad ignition starter switch ( AIRTEX / WELLS Part # 1S5932) and bad ignition switch actuator pin ( DORMAN Part # 924704 at http://www.rockauto.com - 50Us$ both). You can try to bypass ignition switch relay in PDC (black plastic box under the hood with fuses and relays) and if jeep start cranking, problem is in switch or pin. If no crank then check what papaindigo said.

Image Image

This was real helpful!
Matt, another CRD owner, helped walk me through this bypass to get started now we are working on the problem. It looks like it's a bad ignition switch actuator pin ( DORMAN Part # 924704) as it was broke when I started taking it apart. As noted in other posts you turn the key and it acts like you forgot to put it in park. Everything lights up no click no start. (A feeling of helplessness)
However this link was real helpful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5m31g0-3wI
Ignition Switch Actuator Pin Repair Installation Video demonstrated on a PT Cruiser. The procedure is very similar on Wranger, Liberty and Neon for this part. Part Number 924-704.

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Last edited by SLS on Sat May 18, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:14 pm 
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My parts arrived earlier this week (actuator pin, switch, security bits), but it's been raining and I haven't had any free time, so I've just been starting the Jeep by turning the key, popping the hood, using the jumpered relay to start the vehicle, then pulling the relay and driving away.

Using the relay as a starter makes me feel like I've got one of those crank start jalopies from back in the olden days. :lol:

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05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:17 pm 
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I replaced the actuator pin and starter switch last week. I pulled up the "how to" YouTube video mentioned in this thread on the laptop, set it in the passengers seat, and simply followed the directions. Took about an hour. There were a couple little differences between my Jeep and the vehicle in that video, but it was pretty much the same and any adjustments were intuitive.

The interesting thing was that on my actuator pin, it wasn't the plastic pin that broke, but the metal piece that keeps the plastic in place! Yes, the metal, not the plastic is what gave out. :shock:

FWIW there is a spring not mentioned in the video until the RE-ASSEMBLY stage that will pop out of the bottom ignition cover (light spring, about an inch long). Had I not been paying close intention, I'm not sure I would have seen it launch across the vehicle, and I would have been confused as hell trying to get the ignition to work later. The actuator pin I purchased actually included the spring, but I'm not sure I would have understood exactly where it goes since it doesn't really go on the actuator pin mechanism, but between the ignition cylinder cover and the bottom of the actuator pin housing instead.

Other than that... easy-peasy!

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread.

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06 CRD Sport (silver), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, DIY cross bars, LT245/75R16, Hayden fan HD clutch, lift pump, ProVent.

05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:23 am 
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Thanks for all of the good information here. My key was starting to act up, so I looked up the problem here. The next day the key failed, but I knew how to jump it by pulling the relay. Got the parts in and back together this evening. It's a bit more fiddly than the youtube video suggests, and I had to do it in the dark, but it's all back and happy now. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank when the key is turned
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:23 pm 
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Wobbly wrote:
tZac wrote:
My brother had the same problem on 2006 CRD. Problem was bad ignition starter switch ( AIRTEX / WELLS Part # 1S5932) and bad ignition switch actuator pin ( DORMAN Part # 924704 at http://www.rockauto.com - 50Us$ both). You can try to bypass ignition switch relay in PDC (black plastic box under the hood with fuses and relays) and if jeep start cranking, problem is in switch or pin. If no crank then check what papaindigo said.





Good information to slip into the Owner's Manual, or mark on the PDC, if your memory is as bad as mine.


I'm having similar issues. Was out with the Jeep the Sunday following Thanksgiving, parked the Jeep and went to start it again later that day and I get the "no crank" condition but the dash lights are normal with no Sentry Key red light staying on after self test. The battery is a Sears Platinum P1 that is maybe 2 years old (need to check it under load). I charged the battery overnight with no change. Also have not found any blown fuses as of yet.

So it looks like I have a few things to check.
1) Check battery under load
2) Bypass ignition switch relay in PDC
3) Check the shifter NSS cable
4) Check for bad ignition switch actuator pin
5) Starter relay to starter bypass

Does anyone have details on wiring the relay bypass as the images are missing?


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Here's my blog post on the subject: http://danbeahm.blogspot.com/2013/05/re ... n-and.html

I see I never uploaded the photos, but I just found them so I'll get them uploaded today (edit: they're up now). Starting with that bypass is definitely your best first move. It's the least work and the most telling (to see if this is the problem).

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06 CRD Sport (silver), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, DIY cross bars, LT245/75R16, Hayden fan HD clutch, lift pump, ProVent.

05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:25 pm 
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our Jeep still occasionally doesn't want to crank :( so we leave a paperclip in the console for those times. turn key, then get out and jumper the relay to get the cranks. works each time, but is rather annoying. tends to happen most often when the jeep has been sitting out in the sunshine on a warm day.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:02 pm 
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Well checked a few more things today and did the jumper on the starter relay and the engine fired right up. So looks like I'll be ordering a new actuator and ignition switch module.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:31 am 
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MtnClimber wrote:
Well checked a few more things today and did the jumper on the starter relay and the engine fired right up. So looks like I'll be ordering a new actuator and ignition switch module.


Jumping the Starter Relay out firstly overides the ignition switch but also overides the Park and Neutral interlocks....so first try start with the Jeep in Neutral instead of Park.

The ignition switch itself is probably OK ( Turn it with a small flat screwdriver) but the actuator assembly may have broken off. The Dealers do not sell this actuator assembly but you can get it from Dorman parts...you will need a Male Torx "security" bit to remove the ignition/actuator assembly from the side of the steering column...this "security" bit has a hole drilled down its center. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:16 pm 
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Billwill wrote:
Jumping the Starter Relay out firstly overides the ignition switch but also overides the Park and Neutral interlocks....so first try start with the Jeep in Neutral instead of Park.

The ignition switch itself is probably OK ( Turn it with a small flat screwdriver) but the actuator assembly may have broken off. The Dealers do not sell this actuator assembly but you can get it from Dorman parts...you will need a Male Torx "security" bit to remove the ignition/actuator assembly from the side of the steering column...this "security" bit has a hole drilled down its center. :wink:


Good advice on checking the neutral/park thing before taking your steering column apart.

The link I posted above has the parts and links to Amazon and also a picture of a cheap Torx Security kit you can get at Harbor Freight that works great.

The ignition switch may not be necessary, but it's cheap so many elect to go ahead and replace it when they've got everything apart.

The videos on YouTube are great and walk you through everything (the PT Cruiser videos work too, as they are almost identical).

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06 CRD Sport (silver), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, DIY cross bars, LT245/75R16, Hayden fan HD clutch, lift pump, ProVent.

05 CRD Limited (black), factory skids, Fumoto Valve, ARP Studs, Hayden HD fan clutch, EGR delete, Seyfert CRD Stage 2, 225/70R16, EGT gauge


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:48 pm 
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When you have this issue, does the starter attempt to turn the motor over or does nothing happen at all. I have an issue where it will not start sometimes but it does make a clicking sound and you hear the starter attempt to engage. I always think its a dead battery, but a couple times I put on a battery minder for no more than 2 minutes and it starts up effortlessly. The battery minder is 1.25A so its not like it brings the battery from full dead to normal power in 2 minutes. I've started wacking the started with a hammer now thinking that it may be getting caught.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:35 pm 
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Quote:
I have an issue where it will not start sometimes but it does make a clicking sound and you hear the starter attempt to engage.

That sounds like a failing starter, or more specifically, worn contacts in the starter solenoid. Normally it starts by clicking sometimes, but working after a few tries. As it gets worse, it'll take more and more tries until it finally wears enough that it no longer turns on the starter. I'm not sure how easily they're replaced on these starters (or whether replacements are even available), but here's a video explaining what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwokxzjlYcQ


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:25 am 
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mass-hole wrote:
When you have this issue, does the starter attempt to turn the motor over or does nothing happen at all. I have an issue where it will not start sometimes but it does make a clicking sound and you hear the starter attempt to engage. I always think its a dead battery, but a couple times I put on a battery minder for no more than 2 minutes and it starts up effortlessly. The battery minder is 1.25A so its not like it brings the battery from full dead to normal power in 2 minutes. I've started wacking the started with a hammer now thinking that it may be getting caught.


Have your battery tested or simply replace it.
Check that the battery contacts are clean and tight, the negative battery lead going to the chassis is clean and tight and the grounding strap that grounds the engine to the chassis is clean and tight both ends.

When the Actuator pin starts to break it can give these symptoms by bending enough to turn the ignition ON but does not have enough reach to make good contact with the Start section of the switch.

Check the leads on the starter/solenoid are clean and tight and try swapping over the Starter Relay with an identical one next to it inside the relay box under the hood. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:32 pm 
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Little late? I have a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, 177,000 miles. Runs great. Turn key, everything on, won't turn over or start. Put in new battery, nothing. Everything turns on. Radio goes dim when I turn to start, everything else seems to hold it's own. No dimming of gauges when trying to start. Also one click under hood upon turning key to start. Sounds like passenger side. I assume starter solenoid. So, power to starter, I think? Before replacing battery, I jumped it and it started, so I assumed battery after driving for two hours and parking, would not start again? So got a free replacement Optima Yellow top. Some have replaced those parts near column but, did the hear a click as starter tried to engage? If column broke, I doubt that it could hit the solenoid? Thanks in advance. LA


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:04 pm 
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I would check for power at the starter. or whack it with a hammer. sometimes old starters just like to stick.

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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:52 pm 
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If you're getting a single click from near the engine, I'd say it's most likely a worn out starter solenoid that isn't making good contact anymore. The problem can be intermittent but it'll get worse until the starter (or just the solenoid if you can get it individually) is replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: 06 crd won't always crank.... problem found!
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Update. I charged new Optima battery with manual charger. Still nothing. Since I am an old "Goober", I sort of got the idea to rock the ignition switch from on to start, and low and behold, it started.

I just read both latest replies and have to agree, looks like the starter/solenoid. With 177,000 miles on original starter, I think I will replace.

Now, next question, what brand? I like AC/Delco? Remy is an old good brand. Probably Chinese now? Denso and I see a few others. What brand do you guys recommend? New aren't much more than rebuilt, with a couple of exceptions.

Thanks guys,

LN


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