Coolant Leak Woes

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Trying to chase down an errant coolant leak, eats about a pint of coolant on long trips (kicks the sensor aftera bout 120 miles).

Symptoms:

1. Coolant on ground immediately behind rear tire, visible drip after sitting a few minutes, after coming to temperature, consistently in same exact place,
2. No oil in coolant or coolant visible in oil, no white smoke.
3. Replaced suspicious heater core hoses no affect, checked clamps on all resivour bottle hoses.

Any thoughts?

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 8:27 pm

Jimbob wrote:

Trying to chase down an errant coolant leak, eats about a pint of coolant on long trips (kicks the sensor aftera bout 120 miles).

Symptoms:

1. Coolant on ground immediately behind rear tire, visible drip after sitting a few minutes, after coming to temperature, consistently in same exact place,
2. No oil in coolant or coolant visible in oil, no white smoke.
3. Replaced suspicious heater core hoses no affect, checked clamps on all resivour bottle hoses.

Any thoughts?

Coolant near or around the rear tire could indicate coolant coming out of the overflow section of the expansion tank (plastic bottle)

Do you see any amount of coolant in the coolant reservoir?
The coolant reservoir is part of the expansion tank and is located to right of it.

test for pressure under the cap. Here is the one minute pressure test...
1. on a cold engine remove the radiator cap to release any built up pressure.
2. replace cap and start engine.... let run for 30 seconds.
3. stop engine and remove radiator cap to test for pressure. If there is a miniscule amount of pressure under the cap after running the engine for 30 seconds then you most likely have problem.

Get an exhast gas in coolant test for diesel engines from Napa and perform the test to confirm a head gasket leak.

What type of coolant have you been using?

How many miles?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 07, 2012 9:24 am

racer for very good historic reasons tends to look for an internal leak and his 1 minute test is a good one.

On the other hand I, for equally good historic reasons, tend to look first for external leaks which are often invisible. To find those leaks drop by a local parts store and get coolant UV dye; add to coolant; drive a while; look for UV dye around all water hoses and such using UV light (best done away from full sun). Common source is a weak factory spring clamp; solution is replace with worm clamp.

Also turn on cabin heat and sniff air for smell of antifreeze. If present you have leaky heater core.

That said I don't understand your 1st comment. Which rear tire? I ask because there is no way that I know of that coolant could be dripping behind either rear tire except out of the exhaust in which case you obviously have an internal leak. If you do have a drip in that area are you sure it's antifreeze (touch drop to tongue and it will taste sweet - don't swallow) or just water vapor from not fully warmed up exhaust. Racer's response regarding coolant tank only makes sense if drip is behind passenger side front tire but at the same time a trip in that area could be from either or both heater hoses or from the AC drain. So where ever that drip is confirm that it's antifreeze not just water.

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon May 07, 2012 9:48 am

papaindigo wrote:

That said I don't understand your 1st comment. Which rear tire? I ask because there is no way that I know of that coolant could be dripping behind either rear tire.

Near the passenger side rear tire is the area that one notices a small coolant puddle when there is coolant escaping from the reservoir.

It drops down the back of the firewall near the turbo and follows the rail as far back as the rear tire.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 07, 2012 10:20 am

Now that's interesting I'd have never thought it could get that far but I should have guessed from chasing roof leaks from time to time. I've now learned something new for today.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

I miss spoke behind the passenger front wheel, about 8 inches back, definately resivor area. I read race tracers experiences and I am spooked (this one will be going to the junkheap before I go that far).

I havent given up on externals just yet (watching the inner chamber carefully to see if fluid is being pushed in that direction) as I could have overfilled it after replacing the heater core lines which were in fairly rough shape.

84k, only saving grace is it is coming up on its 100k service so if I do choose to have it torn apart it will be done all at once.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

This is looking more and more like a headgasket by the day. Still need to dig into the EGR. Definately getting beyond my ability to evaluate.

I would almost bet it is the number 4 cylinder that had a severe injector failure and was probably running lean for a while.

I am going to run the NAPA test to see if I have exhaust.

Now the question is going to be do I fix it, do a dump it as a fixer upper? (Anyone want a nice CRD with a to be diagnosed issue?)

Its a shame because I liked this vehicle alot, at least it is paid for.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:59 pm

Well, assuming it's just the head gasket (the head isn't warped) it isn't that much more to have that swapped when they're doing the timing belt. The problem is that there aren't many options for a Diesel SUV. Toureg TDi's are expensive and used Libbys or GC's are tough to find though it may get better when the new GC diesel comes out next year. So if you need a diesel SUV you're best off repairing this one.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

grywlfbg wrote:

Well, assuming it's just the head gasket (the head isn't warped) it isn't that much more to have that swapped when they're doing the timing belt. The problem is that there aren't many options for a Diesel SUV. Toureg TDi's are expensive and used Libbys or GC's are tough to find though it may get better when the new GC diesel comes out next year. So if you need a diesel SUV you're best off repairing this one.

A warped head is what i am worried about, has never overheated yet (never got outside its normal range). Sure doing the timing interval and water pump early is not that big a deal, headgasket not that big a deal either as long as the head is intact. I would hate to spend $3,000 getting it apart just to find it needs another $4,000.

For those who went through this what should I expect (mechanic, non dealer, very comfortable with diesels) for this job?

I can live without a diesel, frankly after all the problems with this one I am pretty discouraged wtih them, combined with the additional complexities of advanced emissions equipment..........I am thinking of just resurrecting a ICE 99 TJ.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat May 12, 2012 5:12 am

Jimbob wrote:

For those who went through this what should I expect (mechanic, non dealer, very comfortable with diesels) for this job?

My temperature gauge never indicted I had a problem, maybe becasue I had air in the system I don't know.

You wont know what condition the head is in until it's inspected. Most likely it's not warped and from what I gather, it takes a lot of heat to warp a head.

A reman head is $800 and head gasket with bolts is $200. The timing belt parts are $550 to $750.

Flush the cooling system properly, squeaky clean it.

Make sure to use distilled water when refilling the system. Tap water mixed with the hoat coolant has a bad reaction with the metal parts in the system, deteriorating the metal and creating rust. This may be the cause of the problem, a clogged radiator.

Make sure to replace the radiator, don't take any chances, we had many clogged radiators due to the mixing of coolants from unknowing members on this board.

Check the small 3/8" hose on top of the radiator for blockage. It goes from the radiator to the plastic expansion tank on top. This small 3/8" hose is a very important hose, it is one of the hoses that carries trapped air out of the system, if it is clogged it is a big problem. It's imperative that it is clean and not plugged up with dried coolant.

Take your time, do it right and check everything twice. I was there with my mechanic when he did the work on mine and it's not a bad job if you know what you're doing.

Good luck and keep us posted.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Sat May 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Jimbob wrote:

For those who went through this what should I expect (mechanic, non dealer, very comfortable with diesels) for this job?

For a worst-case scenario read through this thread of racer's and my experiences:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62047

I ended up spending $6,300 for a new head, gasket, timing belt, tensioner, idler pulleys, heater core, water pump, new radiator, and all the labor done by a dealer. So that should be your high-end estimate.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

grywlfbg wrote:

Jimbob wrote:

For those who went through this what should I expect (mechanic, non dealer, very comfortable with diesels) for this job?

For a worst-case scenario read through this thread of racer's and my experiences:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62047

I ended up spending $6,300 for a new head, gasket, timing belt, tensioner, idler pulleys, heater core, water pump, new radiator, and all the labor done by a dealer. So that should be your high-end estimate.

No way I am paying a dealer, I have seen to much shoddy work and shenanigans and most dont have a dedicated diesel mechanic. Probably take it to a diesel shop I know. I appricate the estimates.

Still not 100% that is what I am dealing with, tempted to slap an EGR on it as I also smell a fairly substantial exhaust leak upfront with a gas tick "pift pift" (if it had that bad of a leak on the headgasket I wouldnt think it would be running well).

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 2:13 pm

Jimbob wrote:

if it had that bad of a leak on the headgasket I wouldnt think it would be running well.

Mine was running great too and the head gasket still needed to be replaced.

naturist · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 7:51 pm

Mine has leaked coolant from the hoses back by the turbo twice in the 150,000 miles I've driven it. That's underneath the reservoir, too.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

It keeps getting weirder, the coolant leak (as measured by the resevoir) appears to have stopped, and I think I found a pinhole on the seam that keeps getting a boiled down droplet on it.

The exhaust gas is less now that I tightened down the injector, guess next weekend I am going to have to pull it (again) and put a new washer under it.

Still thinking of pulling the EGR, while it should be largely dead due to the GDE, it still was never replaced and I suspect it is a mess.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 8:32 am

If you want to mess with the EGR it can be cleaned instead of being replaced. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62495

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

papaindigo wrote:

If you want to mess with the EGR it can be cleaned instead of being replaced. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62495

Thanks this keeps getting weirder by the day.

Coolant leak seems to be gone since I went back to the original cap?

Yanked the back injector (again) and found it was pulling its threads out which is why it was blowing carbon. Had to tap the head to rethread for a larger bolt and modify the rocker. Injector is fine, leak gone for now.

naturist · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 4:28 pm

Me, too.

I seem to be having a leak from the overflow pressure tank. My wrench said he could find no evidence it was coming from anywhere else, so I've bought a new plastic overflow tank and pressure lid, and about to install it. Since that part has been off at the hands of several mechanics over the 7 years I've owned this vehicle, and because the new one, like the old one, has three hose bibs with hoses going somewhere or other, I thought I'd try to understand the system before putting it back.

To my horror, the 2005 Service Manual I have shows the system for the 3.7L gas and 2.8L diesel being identical, WITH ONLY _TWO_ hoses, one of which goes around the back of the engine and up the driver's side to the top of the radiator, the other down below as with my Jeep.

On mine, the to of the radiator is connected with a hose across the front and back along the passenger side to the hose bib that isn't shown at all in the manual. The page is here: http://www.expressions-photographics.com/forumpix/coolant.pdf.

Does anybody have a manual page showing the 3-hose system?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 5:03 pm

If no one sends you the answer shoot me an email and we can set a time tomorrow to chat and I can take a look at my tank and walk you thru it.

FYI in removing the tank 1) there is a flatish metal bracket off the firewall that fits into a slot on the bottom of the tank so that you have to pull the tank forward before you can pull it up and out (on reinstall you can just rest the bottom of the tank on the silly bracket) and 2) don't forget to disconnect the low fluid sending unit on the bottom of the tank before you complete removal.

bugnout · **Posted:** Thu May 24, 2012 5:23 pm

That manual page definitely not right. I'll take a look as well.

Coolant Leak Woes

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