Water pump replacement - nightmare of a job!

panda-52 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:46 pm

I'm in the middle of a timing belt change and was planning on changing the water pump at the same time. Now that I've examined the pump up close and have a better idea of what lies ahead if I decide to go ahead and change it, I'm having second thoughts. The current pump shows no sign of leaking or sloppy bearings and just maybe it will last until the next TB change. It looks to be almost impossible to get at the back bolts with the exhaust manifold in place.

Any opinions on NOT changing the water pump at this time and waiting until the next belt change? There doesn't seem to be a lot of posts concerning water pump problems. It's a really heavy duty looking part.

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:57 pm

Haven't heard of one leaking yet. I didn't change mine when I had the tb done. Hope I don't live to regret it.

I think is been about 50/50 on those that did and those that didn't

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:15 am

Some have changed the water pump along with the timing belt and some have not (I know geordi and sir sam did not). I have seen at least one post regarding water pump leaks before 100K mile but not a lot of water pump leak posts. If yours looks solid the risk of leaving it in is you may have to go all the way back in before the next timing belt change, but you already know that.

As to how much of a pain the water pump replacement is; I have no personal experience. I have been told that it can be done by only removing the passenger side cam gear and tilting the inner cover to the side but how to deal with the bolts I don't recall a mention. Based on the FSM illustration (if you believe it) I thought there were only 4 bolts and access to them is from the front. I be curious what folks say who have actually done the water pump replacement.

DynoPax · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:36 am

If it look & feels OK and does not leak, I would wait too. My TB replacement is coming soon, as I'm at 145,000 km (90K miles) and I do not plan on replacing the water pump, unless there are obvious wear signs. This will wait until the next TB replacement, unless it fails in the meanwhile :juggle:

jeepdan · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:05 am

I have done two timing belt/ water pump changes, mine had 100,300 miles and other had 121,000 miles on it. Both water pumps looked and felt fine. So I may not change the water pump on my other CRD #2 that I recently purchased with 104,000 miles on it, if it feels fine. I may wait a year or two and change out all of the coolant hoses and the pump at the same time.
I can't imagine the water pump lasting until the next timing belt change at 200,000 miles, so one is risking having a water pump failure later at a bad time by not changing it now.
Bottom line, if you are paying someone else to do the labor, change the pump now. If you have the proper tools and a warm garage to do it later, you might wait.

panda-52 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:55 am

jeepdan wrote:

I have done two timing belt/ water pump changes, mine had 100,300 miles and other had 121,000 miles on it. Both water pumps looked and felt fine. So I may not change the water pump on my other CRD #2 that I recently purchased with 104,000 miles on it, if it feels fine. I may wait a year or two and change out all of the coolant hoses and the pump at the same time.
I can't imagine the water pump lasting until the next timing belt change at 200,000 miles, so one is risking having a water pump failure later at a bad time by not changing it now.
Bottom line, if you are paying someone else to do the labor, change the pump now. If you have the proper tools and a warm garage to do it later, you might wait.

Having done two, I would say you qualify as "experienced". How did you get at the bolts/nuts at the rear of the pump? I know they're there but wondering what else I'd have to take off to to get at them.

Thanks

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:17 am

With my Wife's TDI that is on a 60K T belt replacement (what I do anyway), I swapped the Water Pump at 120K.
Since our CRDs turn at lower RPMs than a TDI and we are on 100K T belt replacement, I am going to side with Sir Sam and do the Water Pump at 200K. Tony CRD did his Timing Belt with out doing the Water Pump (if I remember right) and his CRD is older with no Water Pump issues.
Since the Water Pump is not timed, grab the shaft, turn the impeller to feel for clicks, then check for slop. If it checks out OK, put the Water Pump on the shelf.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:44 am

From doing hundreds of timeing belts from VW's to Ford's not doing the TB driven waterpump when doing the TB always ends up biting the customer in the butt later on.Not just from leaking,which is the main cause,but have had a few that the bearings failed 10k or so after the TB change and throw the belt and bye-bye engine.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:40 pm

To get at the two rear nuts; first remove visciuos heater and one it's hoses to be able to remove heat shield from exhaust manifold.
Then remove the three small, long bolts from the back of pump holding adapter housing on.
This will allow enough rear movement of the adapter with it's hoses still connected to fit a 13mm socket and 3/8" extension between the pump and adapter to remove the nuts.
Caution, the nut's studs extend beyond the nut far enough that a standard socket is too short ( also no room for a deep well socket) Put 13mm socket on nut all the way first, then put the extension in back of socket as far as you can get it.
I learned that one the hard way after rounding top nut off a little :oops:

jeepdan · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:13 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

From doing hundreds of timeing belts from VW's to Ford's not doing the TB driven waterpump when doing the TB always ends up biting the customer in the butt later on.Not just from leaking,which is the main cause,but have had a few that the bearings failed 10k or so after the TB change and throw the belt and bye-bye engine.

Good point, My flawed thinking that I could catch coolant leaking well before bearing failure is too expensive of a risk for me.
Why replace the idlers and tensioner and not replace the water pump considering it's bearing is doomed for failure also.

panda-52 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:43 pm

jeepdan wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

From doing hundreds of timeing belts from VW's to Ford's not doing the TB driven waterpump when doing the TB always ends up biting the customer in the butt later on.Not just from leaking,which is the main cause,but have had a few that the bearings failed 10k or so after the TB change and throw the belt and bye-bye engine.

Good point, My flawed thinking that I could catch coolant leaking well before bearing failure is too expensive of a risk for me.
Why replace the idlers and tensioner and not replace the water pump considering it's bearing is doomed for failure also.

True, thats why I sprung for the new pump. I've done the TB 3 times on my TDI and always have done the water pump too. Thanks for the tip about getting at the rear studs.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:38 pm

jeepdan wrote:

Good point, My flawed thinking that I could catch coolant leaking well before bearing failure is too expensive of a risk for me.
Why replace the idlers and tensioner and not replace the water pump considering it's bearing is doomed for failure also.

I didn't replace the idlers and tensioner either, just the belt. I plan to do all of that stuff at 200k. then TB only again at 300k.

panda-52 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:52 pm

jeepdan wrote:

To get at the two rear nuts; first remove visciuos heater and one it's hoses to be able to remove heat shield from exhaust manifold.
Then remove the three small, long bolts from the back of pump holding adapter housing on.
This will allow enough rear movement of the adapter with it's hoses still connected to fit a 13mm socket and 3/8" extension between the pump and adapter to remove the nuts.
Caution, the nut's studs extend beyond the nut far enough that a standard socket is too short ( also no room for a deep well socket) Put 13mm socket on nut all the way first, then put the extension in back of socket as far as you can get it.
I learned that one the hard way after rounding top nut off a little :oops:

I've pretty much decided to go ahead and change the WP, if I can get if off, Certainly having smaller hands would help. I took out the air box and that was a good decision. Since I'm changing the T-stat, removing it was also a positive step. Those 3 8mm bolts on the back of the WP are going to be tough. I got the easy one right away but for the other 2, the turbo is right in the way. Maybe some kind of special wobble wrench, combo of universal and extension on a 1/4" wrench? Any ideas on getting at those small bolts.

Thanks

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:55 pm

panda-52 wrote:

Any ideas on getting at those small bolts.

Pics would help with suggestions.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:26 am

Obviously, remove the air box and the boost hose. Having the thermostat off (but not necessary) will make removing the front exhaust heat shield a lot easier.
I used a 1/4 drive ratchet and a assortment of extensions to get the bottom and outer top bolt. It requires an 8mm socket that I didn't have, I used a 5/16" socket. The inner top bolt I used a box end wrench. It is not easy and even more frustrating when reassembling while trying to hold gasket in place.
If you haven't already, you might as well remove the engine skid plate, as you will likely drop something

I will gladly take pictures when I do my other CRD, HOPEFULLY next week. I have the timing belt parts, but I'm trying to scrape up the extra cash for water pump

tonycrd · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:56 pm

I didn't swap the waterpump neither because Jeep wanted $650 for it...

I'll do it at 200k Km's though, I think I pushed it far enough.

Now I can get a pump from Fleabay for $172 but I am affraid that is a cheepo chinese made pos. And wont last another 200k Km.

Saving my pennies for an OEM one...

panda-52 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:49 am

jeepdan wrote:

Obviously, remove the air box and the boost hose. Having the thermostat off (but not necessary) will make removing the front exhaust heat shield a lot easier.
I used a 1/4 drive ratchet and a assortment of extensions to get the bottom and outer top bolt. It requires an 8mm socket that I didn't have, I used a 5/16" socket. The inner top bolt I used a box end wrench. It is not easy and even more frustrating when reassembling while trying to hold gasket in place.
If you haven't already, you might as well remove the engine skid plate, as you will likely drop something

I will gladly take pictures when I do my other CRD, HOPEFULLY next week. I have the timing belt parts, but I'm trying to scrape up the extra cash for water pump

Last night I was able to get the water pump removed. In my case what worked was a 1/4" drive 8pt 8mm socket, a 2" wobble extension and very short ratchet. I'm glad i decided to change the pump. It does "feel" different compared to the new OEM pump. In my opinion, doing this job really depends on how long you plan on keeping the vehicle. My dealer only recommended changing the belt. That makes sense because the usual failure mode for the water pump is a leaking seal. So if it happens, heck it's another tear down, somewhere down the road. Even so that may never happen. Realistically most vehicles die long before 200 miles and even so the pump may indeed last that long. The idler pulleys and tensioner probably will go the distance.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:48 am

I did the water pump without removing the viscous heater. Did remove the t-stat (that's a must). Removed a sprocket so that we could pull the inner cover. Then it's just a matter of taking the manifold exhaust shield loose and using ratches and swivels and getting the bolts all out. I would definitely recommend doing it while you are in there. Do you want to do this job over again? NO. Do it all while you are in there.

P.S. I have a used, but great condition water pump for sale if anybody wants it.

vshockey10 · **Joined:** Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:28 am **Posts:** 59

Everyone is making it sound impossible to replace the waterpump. Guys, this is my first time digging into this engine and I must say it sucked, but it wasnt as bad as everyone is making it out to sound. My tip is to remove the airbox and rubber boot going to the turbo! That will free up a ton of room for you to get your hands in there. Also, remove the viscous heater, you will need to unbolt it from the waterpump anyways. I found that the waterpump mount bolts were very tight, so tight that my open ended wrench was rounding off the bolt. I pulled the impeller section off of the waterpump, and got the mounting bolts off with a deep 13 socket. For the bottom left bolt, get that bolt off by removing the back section of the waterpump (the 3 #8 bolts), push the back section away and slide your socket and extension through the opening. I needed to use a swivel and breaker bar for this bolt.

Removing the exhaust manifold heat shield gives you alot more room, as well as unbolting the coolant hoses from the valve cover. Basically, tear that motor down as far as you can and things wont be so bad!

The fan clutch pissed me off, took me about 45 minutes to remove that. Im used to doing fan clutches on BMWs where I can use my 2 fan clutch wrenches. With the Jeep I had to use a adjustable wrench and a hammer.

Also, I expected the green diesel cam gear holder to actually HOLD the gears when I removed them! Not the case! Hold onto those gears because the tool only works when the cam bolts are still in. Luckily I didnt let the gears fall out or lose their position.

Ill take some pictures for you guys tomorrow.

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

tonycrd wrote:

I didn't swap the waterpump neither because Jeep wanted $650 for it...

I'll do it at 200k Km's though, I think I pushed it far enough.

Now I can get a pump from Fleabay for $172 but I am affraid that is a cheepo chinese made pos. And wont last another 200k Km.

Saving my pennies for an OEM one...

OE parts are much cheaper at moparpartsonline.com and jeepcarparts1.com !!

Water pump replacement - nightmare of a job!

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