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CRD manual tranmission
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62074		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  beelatch [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  CRD manual tranmission
My first post and I already tried the search but didn't find much. I have been wanting to and will be buying a CRD soon but HATE auto trannys and was hoping that a 5 or 6 speed manual could be fitted, either from a gasser here or from an overseas manual model. Fabrication doesn't scare me neither does electronics. I'm just wondering if anyone has had success yet getting a CRD to work with a stick.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Howdy - Welcome to LOST - if you figure out the Manual - keep us updated - there's been lots of talk - but no individual has done it yet
(Sir Sam was getting close but he hasn't posted an update)

Burnsville will do it - they do as part of the CRD into JK swap - but it'll cost about the same as the CRD did new.......
Author:  beelatch [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
I don't have a CRD yet, but will after I finish swapping a VW TDI and NV3500 5 speed into my 2002 Dodge Dakota 4X4, which will take a bit of time and effort. But I thought if I could find a manual tranny from a Euro 'Cherokee' CRD it might swap right in without too much pain. Or maybe a Jeep gasser manual could be hammered in. I was hoping someone would say, 'been there, done that'.
Author:  sota [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Investigate the Euro and Central American spec Jeep Liberty's (called Cherokee's there.) They had a diesel manual as an option.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
mechanically it should be trivial - tranny swap if you can get the parts
Flywheel would probably be the hardest, rest of the stuff from a gasser (keeping the 242 would be a question - Jeep never put them behind a manual)

Electronically.... this is not wiring in a light switch... try assembly language programming on an encrypted Microprocessor...just to get it to talk.... Green Diesel Engineering could probably help.. an appropriate European module would be a significant step forward.
Author:  sota [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
already know the 242 is not a good idea behind the 6spd. one of the gurus here confirmed it would probably get torn up due to the higher shock loading the manual puts into the t-case.

according to the parts books I've seen the gasser manual and the diesel manuals share the same clutch... at least for the 6spd trans applications... so a clutch shouldn't be too hard to come by.

if I were to try it I'd do it as the following...
find an auto diesel to convert
find a gasser v6 6spd 4x4 with good running gear (trans, t-case, driveshafts, possibly front and rear axles/diffs)
swapping all the "hard" bits around shouldn't be much more than turning wrenches... swap the trans/t-case/driveshafts and some bracketry from the gasser to the diesel.
getting the ECU to be happy with NOT having the slush box there to talk to is the real challenge. you probably would be able to start and drive it without changing the code, but I'll guarantee it'll get pissed at some point, and it'll definitely NOT pass most state inspections because the CEL will be lit. I'd be curious to find out if replacement ECU's come from the factory "stupid"... i.e. unprogrammed with any knowledge of the vehicle they'll be placed in and then programmed once hooked to the vehicle. Otherwise you could try making nice with your local dealership and see if they can't get a Euro-spec diesel/manual ECU brought in and VIN'd to your vehicle.

Oh if only i had the time, money and space to work on all these types of projects.... :ROTFL:
Author:  beelatch [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Wasn't there a 2.5 CRD with factory manual tranny offered in Europe?
Author:  Glend [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
There are plenty of 6 speed manual CRDs running around in Australia, and it was offered in the 2.8L and the 2.5 (I think). It might be possible to find one through an Australian Jeep wrecker. Obviously the wiring loom and software presents some problems (like the interplay between the TCM and ECM, but maybe GDE could cut you a tune that ignores the suspected signals from the auto tranny. One word of warning - the guys herer with the manuals have had some clutch problems and aftermarket replacements are very hard to find (because it was never an option in the US), so they have to buy the clutch kits from Jeep (which here means $$$$). Be aware that in the JK CRDs Jeep detuned the engine to reduce the torque figures so the clutch would not burn out. The newer JK Auto CRDs put out 460nm but the manuals only about 400nm. I don't know it they did the same thing to the KJs.
Author:  yatzee [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Noob here - looking at this thread. I'd love a CRD, like others, don't like the auto trans.

I've read that the NSG370 is only good up until 272lbs of tq (input) - if the CRD's are stock 290, aren't we toasted off the bat with that trans?

I've also worked out that the diff ratios aren't great for those of us that are highway dwellers - you'd have to swap out the R&P for something more advantageous - say a 3.00 or under....
Author:  Sir Sam [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
I've posted the details on what bolts up to what and what was used when and what parts and part numbers will get you there. I don't really feel like posting it again, so spend a little time in the search and you will find all sorts of answer.
Author:  DieselJeepLuvr [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
beelatch wrote:
been wanting a CRD soon but HATE auto trannys


I don't get it... I thought only women always want to change a good thing? What's so hard with putting it in "D" and stepping on the accelerator? Not enough interaction? Sorry my best friend is the same way (gotta have a stick) and him and I give each other crap all the time so I thought I'd share :goink:
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
DieselJeepLuvr wrote:
beelatch wrote:
been wanting a CRD soon but HATE auto trannys


I don't get it... I thought only women always want to change a good thing? What's so hard with putting it in "D" and stepping on the accelerator? Not enough interaction? Sorry my best friend is the same way (gotta have a stick) and him and I give each other crap all the time so I thought I'd share :goink:


Some guys just don't like all the torque of the auto(the manuals are detuned not to eat up trannies).

Some guys just don't like keeping the boost up(the manuals tend not to keep the turbo spooled during shifts).

Some guys like getting worse MPG(generally autos do better in city driving for mileage)

Some guys don't like not getting the choice of buying a manual.

Some guys just like the "fun" of driving a manual.
Author:  beelatch [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Sir Sam wrote:
DieselJeepLuvr wrote:
beelatch wrote:
been wanting a CRD soon but HATE auto trannys


I don't get it... I thought only women always want to change a good thing? What's so hard with putting it in "D" and stepping on the accelerator? Not enough interaction? Sorry my best friend is the same way (gotta have a stick) and him and I give each other crap all the time so I thought I'd share :goink:


Some guys just don't like all the torque of the auto(the manuals are detuned not to eat up trannies).


Gee, I thought the torque output of the engine was controlled by the ECU and subsequently by the tune put on that ECU, regardless of what transmission happens to be attached to the engine.

Sir Sam wrote:
Some guys just don't like keeping the boost up(the manuals tend not to keep the turbo spooled during shifts).


So boost is controlled by the transmission? And here I was thinking it was controlled by engine RPM and load and therefore by the right foot. Silly me!

Sir Sam wrote:
Some guys like getting worse MPG(generally autos do better in city driving for mileage)


SSHHHH! Don't let the EPA hear you say that! They rate the gasser V6 at 17 city with the auto, and 18 city with the manual. In fact, I have NEVER seen them rate an auto higher than a manual in ANY circumstance.

Sir Sam wrote:
Some guys don't like not getting the choice of buying a manual.

Some guys just like the "fun" of driving a manual.


I think you left a few out like:



Some guys don't like the high repair cost of autos compared to manuals.

Some guys like the higher reliability of manuals, especially for towing.

Some guys like being able to determine the shift points themselves.

Some guys think a human is more capable of determining driving conditions than a machine without intellect nor perception.

I am sure there are more.......
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Some guys, me, know from experience when driving in soft sand the time it takes you to down shift when in low range that you'll be stuck :5SHOTS:
Not in my CRD but my Bronco II with a V6 4 speed and running in low range. The sand got very soft and I needed more power. Pushed in the clutch and it instantly stopped and I was stuck.

The clutch springs that gave problems in the original TC's are also present in manual tranny's.
Look at towing capacities in say a ford F150's for both standard and automatic transmissions.

Modern automatic transmissions with good TCM programming are the only way to go in a vehicle such as a CRD.
A TDI jetta maybe a different story as that's comparing apples to orages :POPCORN:
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
beelatch wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:

Some guys just don't like all the torque of the auto(the manuals are detuned not to eat up trannies).


Gee, I thought the torque output of the engine was controlled by the ECU and subsequently by the tune put on that ECU, regardless of what transmission happens to be attached to the engine.


The Torque output/power output is controlled by the ECU, and the manual ECUs control it to be lower so they don't eat up a transmission, so no, its not regardless of what transmission is attached to it.


beelatch wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
Some guys just don't like keeping the boost up(the manuals tend not to keep the turbo spooled during shifts).


So boost is controlled by the transmission? And here I was thinking it was controlled by engine RPM and load and therefore by the right foot. Silly me!


Your obviously new at this, manuals, however much fun they are, bleed off boost during shifting, if you want to keep your turbo spooled and boosting autos keep that happening.


Welcome to the forum, I'm done giving fish.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Joe Romas wrote:
A TDI jetta maybe a different story as that's comparing apples to orages :POPCORN:


And you know how I feel about comparing our CRDs to TDIs.
Author:  sota [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
I could get all :furious: but I'll just say this... (and mind you yes, i'm a gasser v6)

I get on average 19mpg with mixed city/highway driving, mostly city.
This current tank is looking to easily make it to 22mpg (mostly highway)... it might even be better.
I towed 5300# without difficulty and got 16.7mpg average on the 230 mile round trip doing the speed limit the whole time (mostly 65mph... Rt 78, NJ Turnpike and NJ-55).
I never have to worry about overheating the trans.
I never worry about being in the wrong gear due to some electronic gizmo guessing wrong.

As for the boost thing, if I had a turbo diesel i'd make a call to a friend of mine and get something he makes modified to work with the jeep to solve that problem :D

I get the want for the stick... I'm one of "them"... have been and probably will always be. Nothing really wrong with an auto*koff*for-women-and-girly-men*koff* but I'd at least like the choice.
Author:  beelatch [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
Sir Sam wrote:
The Torque output/power output is controlled by the ECU, and the manual ECUs control it to be lower so they don't eat up a transmission, so no, its not regardless of what transmission is attached to it.


"Manual ECU's" control power output to be lower IF THEY ARE PROGRAMMED THAT WAY. An ECU that is operating a vehicle with a manual transmission is not limited to having lower power output control capability than one operating a vehicle with an automatic transmission, it is just programmed different. A more aggressive tune on that "manual ECU" will permit more power than a stock ECU with an automatic transmission. I had the same ECU in my manual transmission Jetta TDI that my buddy had in his auto and with my aggressive tune it made twice the power output (it had other mods as well). My point is it was the tune, not the transmission, that limited output. Tuners (including factory) may CHOOSE to detune ECUs that are installed on manual transmissions, but to say

Sir Sam wrote:
Some guys just don't like all the torque of the auto(the manuals are detuned not to eat up trannies).


is presumptuous, as one CAN tune an ECU to have more power, again, REGARDLESS OF WHAT TRANSMISSION the engine is attached to.

Sir Sam wrote:
Your obviously new at this,


Far from it. VERY far from it. I have driven both auto and manual transmission turbocharged vehicles for about 30 of my 35 years of driving.

Sir Sam wrote:
manuals, however much fun they are, bleed off boost during shifting, if you want to keep your turbo spooled and boosting autos keep that happening.


Not if you know how to shift properly. I can keep my turbo spooled with the transmission in neutral and the car sitting still. Boost is controlled by engine RPM and LOAD. I can shift my TDI from 2nd to 3rd with the boost gauge never dropping below 24 PSI. I RARELY do it as it tends to leave significant quantities of my tires melted onto the highway surface for 50 foot stretches. But just driving in the correct RPM range I never have to wait on spooling with my manual.

Sir Sam wrote:
Welcome to the forum, I'm done giving fish.


Thank you very much. I look forward to member's contributions and getting a CRD soon and releasing the power trapped inside it.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
If you want your manual trans so bad behind the 2.8 and have the power you have to forget about any of the manual trans options offered in a KJ currently.Like already stated they will not handle the full power and why they are de-tuned.You will have to start looking at swapping in a NV4500,but by then you will need all the power the 2.8 can produce just to spin that trans.


Why don't you just have the 545RFE built and have it wired for manual shifting only,not hard to do and will handle well more then what the 2.8 can produce.Then you can mock up some of those lame looking paddle shifters :-)r .
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRD manual tranmission
tjkj2002 wrote:
If you want your manual trans so bad behind the 2.8 and have the power you have to forget about any of the manual trans options offered in a KJ currently.Like already stated they will not handle the full power and why they are de-tuned.You will have to start looking at swapping in a NV4500,but by then you will need all the power the 2.8 can produce just to spin that trans.


Why don't you just have the 545RFE built and have it wired for manual shifting only,not hard to do and will handle well more then what the 2.8 can produce.Then you can mock up some of those lame looking paddle shifters :-)r .



Now you've finally said somthing I can agree with :BINGO:
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