Update: Uncontrolled acceleration

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:13 pm

This is an update to my "Electronic Throttle Control Failure" post. I've come across quite a bit of info on the subject and thought a new post is appropriate for everyone to read. If you love your family, friends and well being, you will heed this one warning:

Tell everyone you know who drives or will drive that if the vehicle accelerates on it's own. TURN OFF THE KEY!!!

This is an automotive industry wide problem. ALL manufacturers have had fatalities due to this. I personally suspect it's limited to vehicles with cruise control only but that's simply my speculation. This can happen most frequently on vehicles from 1989 on up but has been reported as far back as 1979. I have never had this happen to me personally and had it not happened to my wife the other day and me finding the vast info online about it I would have laughed it off. This can happen at any time. New, old, high miles, low miles, driving, parked it don't matter. Most will never have this happen to them but when it does (and it's extremely rare) the results are often fatal.

Read this article first: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... QgmSFrg58A

Here's a link to the actual complaints: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... _accel.htm

As long as we are all aware and know what to do if this were to happen...

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:49 pm

What ever you do DO NOT TURN THE KEY OFF.

Put trans in "N",pull to side of road then when in a safe area then turn the engine off.Just turning the key off you loose power steering,power brakes,and in some vehicles lock the steering wheel.

Oh and just so you know TBW has not been really widely used till about '04+ and in most cases have been found to be driver error.If you have a throttle cable and the cruise if set in to "OFF" setting it's almost impossible to have sudden acceleration,again all driver error.To many poeple drive around with the cruise in the "ON" setting which can be a sudden acceleration problem,but again driver error.

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:24 pm

Turning off the ignition does not lock the wheel unless you pull the key! You will still be able to steer and brake though not as efficiently. Honestly I'm not sure if I could find neutral in an emegency situation. More than likely would find reverse. AND if it's a manual transmission on full acceleration with the brake applied fully a silverback querilla couldn't put it in neutral.

nickademus · **Joined:** Mon May 09, 2011 2:15 pm **Posts:** 54

okay, ill bite.

firstly, you cant force it into R, it will easily pop into neutral, its a safety feature. its suposto work that way. turning the key disables the power steering ( no turning engine), and reduces braking power.

Second.... REALLY?... REAAALLY?
if you push in the clutch pedal... i mean..... really?

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:30 am

Not trying to start a pi$$ing match here. Just trying to get everyone to spread the word about it. Think I'm sure you are all seasoned veteran professional drivers but think about you elderly mother or you wife or cousin or children just learning to drive who's reaction times or level headedness in a crisis may not be up to yours. If that were to happen to them would you rather have prepared them for the unlikely or just leave it up to Darwin?

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:09 am

This sounds like a teachable moment to me...

Okay, first, don't turn off the key; it will cause the power steering and brakes to away RIGHT NOW-therefore much less control of the vehicle.

Secondly, (and this is assuming that you have an automatic transmission) for the purpose of practice and learning, go out to your Jeep, sit in the driver's seat and turn the key to "On" (dash lights lit), no need to crank it. With your foot on the brake, put the shifter down to Drive. Now, with your hand open towards the back side of the shifter, DO NOT PRESS THE BUTTON ON THE FRONT OF THE SHIFTER, move the shifter FORWARD. It will go to neutral and no further. It is a safety feature and it is called "Reverse Lock Out". If you have a stuck throttle situation, slapping the shifter into neutral will still allow one to steer and brake. While YES, the engine will be revving to the sky, so what, let it! Steer and brake your way to being stopped and THEN TURN OFF THE KEY.

If you have a Jeep with a manual trans and you experience an engine/throttle runaway, yes PUSH IN THE CLUTCH PEDAL. Steer and brake normally to a safe place, then turn off the key.

These steps can be taught to anyone--young, old, regardless of driving experience.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:52 am

I do know of at least 2 causes of what appears to be what I will call unwanted acceleration from 1) personal experience and 2) observation from the passenger seat.

1) what I will call the big fat shoe/foot or poor brake pedal placement problem for the "right foot driver". If the brake pedal is not far enough left of the go pedal or the brake pedal height is about the same as the go pedal or you have big fat shoe/feet it's very easy find yourself pressing BOTH the brake and the go pedal at the same time when braking. Since the go pedal tends to cause "go" with only a little bit of travel in comparison to the brake pedal the net result is what appears to be acceleration while pressing the brake and your reaction tends to be apply more brake hence more acceleration. I know this for an absolute fact from personal experience, rather startling. Solution 1) make darn sure you take your right foot completely off the go pedal and place it squarely on the brake; 2) if possible adjust brake pedal to ride "higher" than the go pedal; 3) never ever drive to the woods in you big fat insulated hunting boots.

2) the both foot driver problem. Don't get me started on the number of folks I follow for miles at 60+mph whose brake lights are on all the time cause their left foot is sitting on the brake pedal. That aside, I have seen, from the passenger seat (family members but no names will ever be mentioned), that style driver mash both brakes and go pedal at the same time while braking. Net outcome same as in 1) above. Solution IMHO prefered 1) plant your left foot on the floor and leave it there; use you right foot only for both pedals; or 2)alternatively affirmatively take your right foot totally off the go pedal when braking and NEVER ever "ride" the brake pedal with you left foot.

As I said in the earlier string I am not at all fond of drive by wire throttles. IMHO they are an over engineered solution to a non-problem. Repacing 1 cable and 1 spring and maybe an idle stop solenoid with 2 sensors, computer hardware/software, and something to "drive" the engine side of the fuel delivery system just flat makes no sense to me. But then no one asked me.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:29 pm

papaindigo wrote:

As I said in the earlier string I am not at all fond of drive by wire throttles. IMHO they are an over engineered solution to a non-problem.

But it sure makes life easy when you wish to add features e.g.:

- Cruise control becomes software - ok and a few buttons. The manufacturer can still charge for the option which costs them virtually nothing in hardware compared with the mechanically actuated version
- Engine control can be integrated into stability and traction management programs
- You have the ability to ignore throttle input when the brake is being applied
- ...

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:52 pm

Okay those are all good valid points. It's probably better to put it in neutral. Thanks Hoosier for the slap it into neutral trick. Now go out and make your loved ones aware of what to do.

Did anyone actually read the complaints from the consumers affairs link? There's some pretty grizzly stories in there!

TJ2 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:28 pm

nickademus wrote:

firstly, you cant force it into R

It doesn't take any force. I've slammed mine into P thinking I had hold of the t case handle. Going way fast and the sensors did do some good. The trans went into neutral instead of tearing itself apart. You ought to give it a try.

NO, I was not on drugs. I was offroad sport driving at night in a vehicle I wasn't really acquainted with.

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:54 am

Took the libby to the shop yesterday morn. Guy called me today and said come pick it up. No suspicious codes other than MAF sensor unplugged :roll:

and fuel pressure leak (commonly from not tightening fuel cap enough or changing fuel filter). Said he drove it around all day friday and Sat morning and the only question he had for me was how in the hell can he find a CRD Liberty because mine is freakin awesome!

Update: Uncontrolled acceleration

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