Timing belt emergency : Both camshaft pulleys moved A LOT

Ajamant · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:58 pm

Everything was going smooth until I was attempting to put new timing belt on and the right camshaft pulley gerked and spun 5-6 teeth out of alignment. I moved the pulley back COUNTERCLOCKWISE and reset hex key. This happened again but then both camshaft pulleys spun 5-6 teeth out of alignment spitting out the hex keys. I have the flexplate/flywheel pinned with hex key at the 3 o'clock position on crankshaft and this key has not moved. I'm afraid I didn't have the camshaft pulleys pinned correctly from the start. I did not even attempt to loosen the camshaft pulley bolts because I didn't think the pins would hold, and they obviously wouldn't have.

I do not have the expensive VM locking tool, just the tensioner wrench and hex keys.

I have multiple alignment marks on both camshaft pulleys, and fuel pump.

Since both cams have now moved, and COUNTERCLOCKWISE in an attempt to realign I'm afraid this has messed the timing. Is it as simple as moving the pulleys back to my original marks or do I need to time from scratch.

If so, how do I time from scratch.

I'm freaking out, any help would be great.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:04 pm

If you made your own timing alignment marks prior to removing the belt just reset it to those marks and reinstall.

Simple as that, just don't screw it up.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:06 pm

Also, if you can avoid taking off the camshaft pulleys to do whatever you need to do I would recommend not removing them, they are NOT set to the cams so there is potential to mis-align a cam when removing the pulley's.

Ajamant · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:16 pm

So moving the camshaft pulleys counterclockwise to realign my timing marks hasn't messed anything up????? Why in all the instructions do they say clockwise?

camo · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:44 pm

clockwise for the crank to avoid the rare possiblity of the piston hitting a valve. If the cams only moved a couple of teeth just re-aling them with the hex key and reinstall, should not be that big of a deal, if you were able to remove the friking viscous fan you should have no problem resetting the timing.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:59 pm

Ajamant wrote:

So moving the camshaft pulleys counterclockwise to realign my timing marks hasn't messed anything up????? Why in all the instructions do they say clockwise?

The tensioner does not keep tension in the CCW(anti clock wise for you who speak the queens) which leads to the possibility of teeth skipping when tension is lost.

You will be fine just turning them back the short ways to where they should be.

Ajamant · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:14 pm

Thank you so much for the quick replies. That is great news and has eased the pit in my stomach!!!! I also have a line on the proper cam pins which I will pick up tomorrow.

However, I do not want to loosen the camshaft pulley bolts just in case they shift again. Any suggestions on getting the belt on easier, like maybe loosening both idler pulley bolts?

I also did replace both idler pulleys and tensioner.

The mechanical fan got PB blasted for days and then received hourly beatings from Mr. 2 foot long wrench and dead blow while I did yard work

) Around 3 in the afternoon the battle ended, and the wrenching began. (michigan weather equals anti-sieze on everything)

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:27 pm

Ya getting the belt on even with everything loose is a pita.

The way I have done it, get everything on and do the tensioner last. Sometimes you need to turn the crank a little by hand(CCW) to make sure its properly seated onto the teeth, then turn it back CW until the belt is tight between the injection pump and the crank, now with the slack off of the belt you can slide the belt over the tensioner(still pretty freakin hard to do at times), then turn the tensioner tight and lock er down.

Ajamant · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:34 pm

I have to give some MAD props to Green diesel engineering. I emailed Keith on a friday night freakin about my timing belt and he called me not 2 hours later. Hands down some of the best customer service from any company I have ever received.

MAD props to this forum as well. Every mod/upgrade/recall I have ever done on my baby diesel has been at the guidance of this forum.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:38 pm

Ajamant wrote:

MAD props to this forum as well. Every mod/upgrade/recall I have ever done on my baby diesel has been at the guidance of this forum.

Well, don't be a stranger/lurker, join the community a bit more!

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:43 am

You are moving in the right direction (on the job!) and are getting some good advice. You do NOT need to unlock the camshaft pulley nuts to do the timing, and rotating them back 5-6 teeth is OK, as that is ALL you are rotating, not the crank or the pistons. So if you feel heavy resistance, STOP. (You shouldn't) The same kind of thing happened to me on my timing job, the trick is to keep those pulleys locked together somehow.

I started at the top with the belt, and used the base of some drill bits that I slid to either side from the center (above the belt) until they jammed in against the belt, holding it into its teeth on the cams. I had the tool to hold the cams together, but you can do it with a big spring-clamp OR a set of locking pliers - WITH PADDING. (You don't want to hurt those cams!) Just use a little bit of rubber hose around the biting surfaces of the locking pliers, and apply them at the center point where the two pulleys are closest together. That will be more than enough to hold them steady while you are playing with the rest of those pulleys.

Now... Timing: You haven't moved the fuel pump, have you? If you have, or aren't sure... There IS a witness mark from the factory on these pulleys, on the crank, the cams, and the fuel pump pulley. The fuel pump should match with it's mark on the casing, at around the 10-o-clock position. That is the starting point, the two cams SHOULD point directly at each other, and those pins should lock right in. That is how you know you have that perfectly. The crankshaft should already be at the proper spot, the red line should be pointing straight up.

When you rotate the engine by hand the two revolutions to confirm belt tightness (like it isn't already tight enough!) if you bought the Gates brand belt, it might be just a shade short... The tensioner will be VERY difficult if not impossible to get into the "marker" position like shown in the instructions. This is OK, pull it as far as you can. I actually BENT my factory tool on that, before Keith told me that the position might be different b/c of the tension.

Back to the rotation - You rotate the engine two full revolutions, then re-evaluate the tensioner's position. Look at the witness marks... BUT IGNORE THE FUEL PUMP. It will NOT be at the witness mark, because it spins at a slightly different rate. If you started at the right spot, it will be correct., and it isn't as super-critical as the cams.

Good luck!

Ajamant · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:34 am

Just picked up the camshaft pins from Keith and he talked me down. Gonna go back at it. I'll advise when I'm done.

flman · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:32 pm

Ajamant wrote:

Just picked up the camshaft pins from Keith and he talked me down. Gonna go back at it. I'll advise when I'm done.

You are lucky to have him as a neighbor.

camo · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:26 pm

I loosen up my idler pullies instead of the camshafts'. worked the same for me!!!

Ajamant · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:34 pm

So after a restless night of timing belt nightmares the job is FINALLY complete. Once I had the proper cam pins everything went smoothly. Muscled the new belt on, had to adjust the tensioner twice, and then the fateful turn of the key and she puuuuuured like a tiger cat. I did briefly start the engine with everything off just in case something was wrong I could fix it without having to remove everything all over again ( I did bother Keith again and ask him if that was okay and he approved). It's crazy awesome having him within a 40 minute drive. He had another tricked out wrangler with our CRD motor buried under the hood. But now I'm getting side tracked.......

My conclusions: If you have never done a timing belt (like myself) get the proper tools. Mark the cams in multiple points and the fuel pump before removing the belt. Had I not done this I would of been totally screwed.

100,230 miles of CRD goodness.

Timing belt emergency : Both camshaft pulleys moved A LOT

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