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New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
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Author:  dieseldak [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
Hi all,
I just purchased a 2006 CRD Limited and have a few questions. Since it has a little over the 160000km that the timing belt was supposed to be done in, I bought a 3 year warranty for it in case it wasn't done and something goes wrong. I figure $1800 will go a long way in the next 3 years as far as maintenance goes.

The questions I have are the Jeep is throwing a CEL but it is one that I cant check with my scanner. Is there a secondary system that can throw a CEL on these Jeeps that cant be read with a normal scanner. When I first got it it had, p0102 and p0299 codes that I erased and they have not yet came back. Right before I picked it they had it in at the dealer for some CELs and the dealer cleaned the MAP sensor and added a jumper wire from the PCM on the drivers side to what looks like a solenoid on the passenger side..............I have no idea why they did this or what it was supposed to fix but after a bit of driving today the CEL came back on and when I check it with my scanner it says "no codes found"

The second question I have is how are these supposed to be off the line, from a stand still if I floor it the Jeep slowly accelerates to about 15mph-20mph then you can really feel the turbo kick in and she pulls nice from there on out. It just seems like it should have some more nuts than that off the line................

And thirdly when I come to a full stop you feel the Jeep stop and the immediately after you can feel a little thump in the back of the Jeep. Its strange like something is settling or the rear end is trying to catch up......................its strange. Possible u-joint???

Any and all help is appreciated,
Thanks :)

Oh and
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Author:  CATCRD [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
I don't know what the jumper wire is for. Post some pictures and we might be able to figure it out.

The power lag is pretty normal, but it doesn't need to get up to 20 to really pull. Usually just about 5 it'll take off.

The clunk in the rear is the rear driveshaft slip yoke. At the forward end of the shaft, under the rubber boot there are splines that get dry. You can take off the boot clamp, unbolt the rear end of the driveshaft and take it off. Wipe some grease into the splines and reassemble. If you're careful you can even reuse the clamp.
Author:  dieseldak [ Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
CATCRD wrote:
I don't know what the jumper wire is for. Post some pictures and we might be able to figure it out.

The power lag is pretty normal, but it doesn't need to get up to 20 to really pull. Usually just about 5 it'll take off.

The clunk in the rear is the rear driveshaft slip yoke. At the forward end of the shaft, under the rubber boot there are splines that get dry. You can take off the boot clamp, unbolt the rear end of the driveshaft and take it off. Wipe some grease into the splines and reassemble. If you're careful you can even reuse the clamp.


Yeah ill check into its lag issues tomorrow and report back, lol. it may not be as bad as I think.

I thought the cluck might be something like that. The newer GM trucks are like that aswell.................

Thanks :)
Author:  dieseldak [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
Here are some pics of the mystery jumper wire. It is connected to a Brown wire with a white tracer..................
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Also can anyone tell me if this is the good filter head.........................
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Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
You have the new fuel filter head. The wiring fix is for the turbo electric vacuum module, this controls the position of the vanes on the turbo. The replaced wire is the signal line from the ECM that regulates the PWM (pulse width modulated) duty cycle.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
CRD's are just below jack rabbits off the line and I suspect your lag is air in the fuel. Some think the new filter head is the cure all for air in the fuel problems and it's not! I have the original fuel head and have had no lagging/air in the fuel problems since I installed a intank lift pump.
Bleed the fuel filter head and see if it helps if so then a lift pump will improve things considerably :JEEPIN:

Yes there are Chrysler specific codes that will only show up on dealer scantools or some expensive scanners.
Author:  onthehunt [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
What kind of dealer runs a wire like that?
Author:  papaindigo [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
I can see replacing a bad wire by running a new one but when that's done the old wire is either removed or left disconnected. If I am not mistaken it looks like the old wire remains connected at both ends which seems odd, never mind the quality of the installation.

I'd concur with Joe that the CRD is just about a jack rabbit off the line if you stomp on the power and even if you don't power comes on pretty quick. Stomping will result in just a slight lag before a major leap forward with tire spin. In addition to bleeding the filter head (press pump on top of head until it gets hard, crack the bleeder on the opposite side, repeat until no air comes out - ideally attach a clear vinyl tube to the bleeder running to a catch bottle so you can see the air and catch the fuel and use a box end wrench to avoid rounding the flats of the bleeder, tighten it snug not godzilla); I'd suggest pulling your (the hoses cannot be satisfactorly check on the engine) turbo>intercooler>engine hoses and checking for cracks/holes/splits on the bottom as it looks like you have factory hoses. If present that would result in low turbo boost and poor off the line performance. While you are at it check the airbox to turbo hose for a rip at the trubo end. SAMCOs or 2n gen OEM are replacements for the former and OEM for the latter hoses.
Author:  dieseldak [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
Yeah that fix is absolute hack if you ask me. I wan to change it desperately but until I get it back into the dealer to have the CEL problem fixed I cant touch it........

I took off all of the intercooler hoses today and found no tears at all and they were in surprisingly good shape. I took off the air intake hose aswell and it to showed no signs of cracking anytime soon.

I will bleed the filter head tomorrow and see if that helps with the lag...........................do you think the lag could be caused by the "turbo electric vacuum module" not functioning..............if the vanes arent working then the turbo could be set in a larger setting and not spool up very fast. I know when I put the HE351VGT on my Cummins I had to build a controller for the VGT function cause if I had not then it would have either spooled very quickly and fell on its face or just have taken forever to spool.

Thanks for all the help guys, im no slouch when it comes to automotive repair and fabrication but there is no such thing as a stupid question and with these being new to me I dont want to make an assumption and have it wrong.
Author:  mikmaze [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
I know of one 6bt dakota, rob is that you? where are you from if not?? my buddy has a sick dakota on some serious meats.
Author:  dieseldak [ Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
No im a different guy :) If his is the green one then yeah his truck is pretty bad booty!!!!!

My name is Charles and im likely one of the few Canadians on the board.

Mine is alittle smaller then his, 6BT swapped, 727TF HD, Dana 60 front, Dana 70 rear, HE35VGT and thats about it.....................I have it alittle apart at the moment for paint but I love it. That truck is my baby and of all the things I have built in my life the most bad booty, lol.
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
If it's not the hoses it could be the FCV (flow control valve) stuck closed or partially closed (see some chat at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61012&p=679339&hilit=flow+control*#p679339). As I understand it this part is not critical such that if it's stuck open it can be left alone and if it's stuck closed or partially closed you can remove the butterfly (be careful not to drop the screws down the throat) to open it. Apparently the plastic gears that open and close this thing tend to strip. Alternatively the turbo does have variable vanes which move to control the amount of boost. I'm certainly no turbo expert but your original description suggests you have boost but that it's cutting in later than normal (normal being almost immediately after you give it a decent amount of throttle). That makes me wonder if the vanes are a bit "sticky". There is some amount of forum chat to the effect that from time to time one needs to "flex or work" the vanes to clear soot that tends to build up and interfer with vane performance. The most common clearing technique seems to be a good hard acceleration up something like an on ramp. Repeat a time or 2 until the trailing cloud of black smoke gets less.

Your issue certainly could relate to the system that flexes the vanes but I'd look first at whether the vanes can flex.

When you had you airbox to turbo hose off did you check for play in the turbo vane shaft? There is also chat on this topic, not related to low boost so much as condition of the turbo relative to its life span.

Beyond this best depend on other input as I've gone about as far as I can with suggestions.
Author:  dieseldak [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
When I had the intercooler hoses off I checked the FCV to see if it was opened or closed and it was open and I could move it by pressing my finger on the butterfly.

I bled the filter head today and there was air in it, that much is for sure. Im glad its not there anymore but she still lags until 15mph or so.

I really starting to lean towards the fact that since they tried to but were unsucessful in fixing a problem with the unit that controls the vanes on the turbo they likely arent working and that would explain why the Jeep wont come into full boost until after 2000+ RPM. I am thinking that the turbo is in its largest setting and acting like a normal turbo rather than a VGT style............

Its taking every bit of my will power not to tear into it myself and figure it out but I paid for a full warranty and I need to use it, if I start tinkering with things I may just void that warranty and be out $1800 for nothing.

Thanks
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
You can check the vane functionality at idle in park. Underneath the vacuum actuator on the turbo is rod extending downward connected to the vane mechanism. If you pull off the vacuum line at the turbo, the arm should drop about 1/2 inch and then raise back up after reconnecting the vacuum line. It is a bit difficult to see the rod, but this is the easiest method to check for proper VGT vane moevment.
Author:  dieseldak [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
You can check the vane functionality at idle in park. Underneath the vacuum actuator on the turbo is rod extending downward connected to the vane mechanism. If you pull off the vacuum line at the turbo, the arm should drop about 1/2 inch and then raise back up after reconnecting the vacuum line. It is a bit difficult to see the rod, but this is the easiest method to check for proper VGT vane moevment.


GDE you are the best!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did what you said and the arm does not move when the vacuum line is pulled off of the actuator on the turbo. The best part is since I had to put my head near the solenoid that controls that vacuum actuator to see if the rod was moving I could hear it working. When it was hooked up the solenoid was buzzing and when I disconnected it the buzzing went away. So now I have to assume that the vanes on the turbo are stuck in a position likely all gummed up with soot..............

So what is the solution for this?? Do I just tell the dealer to replace the turbo since it is under warranty????
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
If the turbo shaft spins freely and there is little to no fore/aft or sideways play in the shaft then IMHO your problem is likely only turbo vanes sticking, assuming of course that the vacuum line was actually pulling that vacuum. As I mentioned earlier a number of forum members suggest a few good hard full power accelerations to free up the vanes or you might check warp2diesel's post and the rest of the chat at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61913&p=685281&hilit=blaster#p685281 before trying to get a new turbo not that getting a new turbo out of that warranty is a bad idea if you can pull it off.

Don't anyone shoot me but I have wondered if vanes are sticky whether careful application of something like PB Blaster to the vanes combined with manual movement of the actuatory rod would be an initial step in freeing up stuck vanes. I'm not suggesting dieseldak try this but I am tossing the question out there for consideration. I also assume that if one does this then waiting for the PB Blaster to evaporate would be a good idea before start-up.
Author:  dieseldak [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
papaindigo wrote:
If the turbo shaft spins freely and there is little to no fore/aft or sideways play in the shaft then IMHO your problem is likely only turbo vanes sticking, assuming of course that the vacuum line was actually pulling that vacuum. As I mentioned earlier a number of forum members suggest a few good hard full power accelerations to free up the vanes or you might check warp2diesel's post and the rest of the chat at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61913&p=685281&hilit=blaster#p685281 before trying to get a new turbo not that getting a new turbo out of that warranty is a bad idea if you can pull it off.

Don't anyone shoot me but I have wondered if vanes are sticky whether careful application of something like PB Blaster to the vanes combined with manual movement of the actuatory rod would be an initial step in freeing up stuck vanes. I'm not suggesting dieseldak try this but I am tossing the question out there for consideration. I also assume that if one does this then waiting for the PB Blaster to evaporate would be a good idea before start-up.


I have done countless 0-75mph pulls with it and there is no change.........................

They are likely just all sooted up. The line is pulling vacuum, but the actuator cant move. The VGT Holsets are just as bad on the newer Cummins motors. Ive had to replace or take apart and clean several of them for customers.

Im sure I could free it up but I have a VERY good relationship with the dealer where I bought the Jeep and he told me if there is anything I fond wrong bring it in and they will replace it since I bought the warranty. It wont cost them anything so they dont care. If I can get a new turbo out of it AWESOME, if not im sure I can get them working again.
Author:  papaindigo [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
Go for it then.
Author:  geordi [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
If they will give you a new turbo, DO IT. At the same time, since you have a good relationship with the dealer, ask them what the core charge is on the old turbo. If it is something reasonable like $200-$300... Don't let them toss that turbo, buy it for yourself. You can either clean the vanes yourself then, or easily get your money back by selling that unit to someone here who may have a bearing failure and only needs the center cartridge for their own turbo.

These turbos are WAY expensive at the dealer, and apparently Garrett doesn't sell just the parts for them b/c they are some magical size or rare.
Author:  dieseldak [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New CRD owner, have a few questions..............
geordi wrote:
If they will give you a new turbo, DO IT. At the same time, since you have a good relationship with the dealer, ask them what the core charge is on the old turbo. If it is something reasonable like $200-$300... Don't let them toss that turbo, buy it for yourself. You can either clean the vanes yourself then, or easily get your money back by selling that unit to someone here who may have a bearing failure and only needs the center cartridge for their own turbo.

These turbos are WAY expensive at the dealer, and apparently Garrett doesn't sell just the parts for them b/c they are some magical size or rare.


Lol, WILL DO :)

I also took the top 3 bolts out of the timing belt cover and noticed that the timing belt had the rusty coloured horizontal lines on it that I always see in the threads titled REPLACE YOUR TIMING BELT. Should I see if I can get them to replace the belt to, and if I can get them to do the belt what else should be replaced while they are in there..................
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