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Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62307		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  tangov8 [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Hi, Can anyone help me with this fault please,or had the same problem?

I own a RHD 2.5 CRD Ltd 5 speed in the Uk since last December
Mods ECU remap- Jan 2011 & K & N airfilter
Noob guide followed 1-6 & doing 28mpg round town
No black or other coloured smoke from exhaust

Problem; For the last 6 months the car has engine cuts out dead in 3rd 4th & 5th gear at 3123 rpm, (this is instant ie does not die down) Showing fault code P1130 Fuel pressure I think.
The fuel pressure before it shuts down is 189.74 on the rail, is this too high @ 3123rpm?

I have had the injectors swoped,cleaned the fuel tank & pipes out,run with no filler cap & bypassed the filter head & fuel filter (only to test it,put back now) ,nothing changes it & it is dangerous to drive (wifes car)
Has anyone had this sort of fault from a crankshaft speed sensor as I was going to try that next,other than that it would be to have the remap taken off?
Please help,my wife likes the car but I am throwing hundreds of £££'s at it & getting no where,not fair to sell or PX car as it could hurt someone!

Many thanks Dave UK Chesterfield
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
What are the units of your fuel pressure? The peak fuel pressure setpoint on this engine is 1350 bar (19580 psi) and the engine. If the rail sees a pressure above 1450 bar (21030 psi) for more then a couple seconds the ECM will flag an overpressure fault and shut off the engine. It sounds like your issue surfaced after installing the engine tune.
Author:  tangov8 [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Hi
I am told that the DRB measures is in mpa? Don't know what that means!

Dave
Author:  tangov8 [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
I have talked to the re map co today & they agree that the rail is far over pressure,the trouble is that they say that the tune is not at fault & something else is causing the fault,also that they can put it back to stock but think it would just be the same as the underlying fault would push the rail pressure past the max again!
Any ideas? Sensors seem to checkout ok?
Author:  racertracer [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
get rid of the tune and start from scratch, keep the people informed as to progress, i.e. the tune people.
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
mpa is megapascals. 189 mpa is 1890 bar or 27412 psi. Yes, this is way over the limits of the fuel system. Either the tune you have is wrong or the mprop is sticking full open on the bosch fuel pump. Are you stacking a tune with a chip on your CRD by chance? Hopefully you can get this ironed out soon!
Author:  tangov8 [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
The tune is just an ECU re-map,but Im the 5th owner so who knows whats been done before! I had the remap in the first place because the car was painfully slow on set off & dull to drive,it has made it back upto what I would class as normal.I asked about removing the remap, but was told that if its so far above what they set it at it will have the same fault even at stock settings as they are sure that the increased pressure is not the ECU but another fault.I will talk to the Jeep garage tomorrow as hes on holiday at present,but I did text him for info & he says that the sensors seem ok & no throwing fault codes up.
I did notice that when I disconected the the leak off pipe after the inline non return valve that diesel was returning up the pipe from the tank,I dont know if it should,I didint think it would do that?
I can drive the car as normal if I dont pass 3000rpm in any gear & it wont fail at all even after months of driving,wont fail when stood & rev's to red line,drive it passed 3000rpm in 3,4,5th & it will fail evey time

Many thaks for your help

Dave :banghead:
Author:  tangov8 [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Will ask garage to look at Mprop again

Thanks :juggle:
Author:  tangov8 [ Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Just thinking about my cars fault,as ever
If it was the ECU soft ware,wouldn't the car have the fault every time it reached past 3000rpm? or is it askink for something else at that rev's,also the same for the Mprop valve? I'm only thinking out loud & trying to understand how it all works & why it's so consistant,but gear & speed critical?

Many thaks for all your help & clues

Dave
Author:  tangov8 [ Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
mpa is megapascals. 189 mpa is 1890 bar or 27412 psi. Yes, this is way over the limits of the fuel system. Either the tune you have is wrong or the mprop is sticking full open on the bosch fuel pump. Are you stacking a tune with a chip on your CRD by chance? Hopefully you can get this ironed out soon!


The Mprop has been changed & the problem is still present,looks like the tune will have to go but I have been offered another ECU at a fair price,would that be better as I dont know if the Ecu on my car will be damaged?
When you say a tune on a chip,I did have the remap company out & they did say they put the tune back on the car as it had been in the dealer for a recall & were unsure if the tune had been lost?

Thanks for all your help

Dave
Author:  GreenDieselEngineering [ Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Some owners will install and ECU tune (which typically raised the rail pressure at full load operation) and then add a fooler chip that plugs into teh rail pressure sensor to fake out the signal (this will also increase the rail pressure). Add both together and you have very high pressures that usually exceed the limits.

The rail pressure set point is based on rpm and injected fuel quantity demand. So at light and medium loads you will be within the limits at any rpm, but at high load and high rpm the set point in your tune might be mapped over the specifications. It will be interesting to see if your issue goes away with a stock ECM re-installed.
Author:  tangov8 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
Some owners will install and ECU tune (which typically raised the rail pressure at full load operation) and then add a fooler chip that plugs into teh rail pressure sensor to fake out the signal (this will also increase the rail pressure). Add both together and you have very high pressures that usually exceed the limits.

The rail pressure set point is based on rpm and injected fuel quantity demand. So at light and medium loads you will be within the limits at any rpm, but at high load and high rpm the set point in your tune might be mapped over the specifications. It will be interesting to see if your issue goes away with a stock ECM re-installed.

I know now that my car only has the ECU tune/re map,& nothing pluged into the rail,do you think my ECU may be faulty even with the remap removed & is there any chance it could sill be the crankshaft speed sensor? My car did run ok after the tune for about 2 months but seemed to go wrong after the dealer did a recall on the "flash" on the body control module to do with the side light draining the battery (the alarms not worked since then too)

Dave
Author:  tangov8 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
racertracer wrote:
get rid of the tune and start from scratch, keep the people informed as to progress, i.e. the tune people.


Looking at taking the tune off or replacing the ECU with another unit

Thanks for your help

Dave
Author:  tangov8 [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Hi all,
Just a quick update, I ordered the replacement ECU today,should be here monday or tuesday,will have to get it coded to the car at the garage next week so will report back with the result! fingers crossed

Thanks again for your support

Dave :juggle:
Author:  kelticknight [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
have similar problem too yours ,only difference is ,i have my ecu remapped 4 years ago and no problem till last 6 months,my problem can happen if im doing over 80 mph,or changing gears hard and revs over 3000 rpm,or if low in revs in high gear and i push too speed up.will cut out,if i rev hard when changing gear or passing out another vehicle will cut out, was thinking as i have over 187,000 miles on my kj,maybe the remap is putting it under pressure ,was thinking of changing crank shaft sensor,but not sure,
Author:  tangov8 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
kelticknight wrote:
have similar problem too yours ,only difference is ,i have my ecu remapped 4 years ago and no problem till last 6 months,my problem can happen if im doing over 80 mph,or changing gears hard and revs over 3000 rpm,or if low in revs in high gear and i push too speed up.will cut out,if i rev hard when changing gear or passing out another vehicle will cut out, was thinking as i have over 187,000 miles on my kj,maybe the remap is putting it under pressure ,was thinking of changing crank shaft sensor,but not sure,


Sounds like the same thing as mine,I will post a reply when I solve mine (if) & let you know how I get on with the ECU, if it doesnt cure it the crank shaft speed sensor is all thats left,at least I think it is!

If the ECU does cure mine I am going to put the old one back on,have the tune removed,see if the problem goes,so could have a good spare ECU (and ask for a refund on the tune for all the trouble it has caused!)

Dave :juggle:
Author:  kelticknight [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
tangov8 wrote:
kelticknight wrote:
have similar problem too yours ,only difference is ,i have my ecu remapped 4 years ago and no problem till last 6 months,my problem can happen if im doing over 80 mph,or changing gears hard and revs over 3000 rpm,or if low in revs in high gear and i push too speed up.will cut out,if i rev hard when changing gear or passing out another vehicle will cut out, was thinking as i have over 187,000 miles on my kj,maybe the remap is putting it under pressure ,was thinking of changing crank shaft sensor,but not sure,


Sounds like the same thing as mine,I will post a reply when I solve mine (if) & let you know how I get on with the ECU, if it doesnt cure it the crank shaft speed sensor is all thats left,at least I think it is!

If the ECU does cure mine I am going to put the old one back on,have the tune removed,see if the problem goes,so could have a good spare ECU (and ask for a refund on the tune for all the trouble it has caused!)

Dave :juggle:


cheers dave
how much mileage on your crd

depending what you find,thinking of crankshaft sensor,if that doesnt work,the put ecu back too stock,hoping not too as stock settings
cheers
brian
Author:  tangov8 [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Mine has about 81k on it, the codes on mine are for fuel pressure & I am told that crank shaft sensors tend to fail on engine temp not rpm,mine starts straight back up & again I am told that crankshaft sensors seem to need the engine to cool off for a bit beforethey will restart. See how mine goes,I have thrown alot of money at this fault so far & no results yet!

Dave :banghead:
Author:  kelticknight [ Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
was going too stealership but they seem too guees more than anything and i can do that without it costing me more,its either ecu,crankshaft sensor,there also a acceleration sensor,maybe you get a clue,,might go to dealership too get a diagnostic but i wont let them fix as they good at charging too much too do things
Author:  tangov8 [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Engine stalling 2.5 CRD LTD UK 5 speed 2002
Well that didn't work! replacement ECU came today,had it coded & fitted and it's just the same only slower as not remapped,hence the original is back on again.
Also swopped the MAP sensor,still fails under load but is a bit better than before? I did swop the angle of the Map sensor as it has two positions,anyone know which it should be for an early 2.5 vm engine? have fitted this one at 90 deg to the rocker cover,not where it was before(early type sensor with just a probe)
Run out of ideas & cash now,if winter wasn't around the corner I would just get rid of it,saying that,it's worth nothing but has no rust on the body or chassis unlike a Land Rover Discovery or Freelander of the same age

:furious: :banghead:
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