Aftermarket Charge Air Coolers-would you buy?

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:10 am

Hey Guys,

Based on a topic recently posted by Sir Sam, you can see that the CACs on our Jeeps leak. Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62845

Typically, the leak is gradual. This causes performance and fuel mileage to diminish gradually as well. In time, this happens to all vehicles with a CAC. The window is about 3-5 years for CAC lifespan.

Replacing the CAC restores power, fuel mileage and allows for less wear on the drivetrain. Replacing the CAC should pay for itself in the cost savings of fuel and repairs.

Currently, as far as I know, the only source for a replacement CAC is the OE dealer. If other sources exist, please advise. OE parts usually have a 12 month warranty.

If the company I work for is willing to manufacture a drop in replacement for the Liberty CRD, would you be interested in purchasing it? I have created this poll to measure the level of interest.

Before voting, here are some points to consider: 1) The CAC would likely have a 2-year warranty, possibly a 5-year warranty-depending on the center section design. 2) This CAC would likely be priced below the OE dealer, a cost savings to you. 3) It could likely be shipped to you door. 4) I, the Hoosier CRD, would not make a penny off of these purchases from you guys. I am simply offering up the possibility of an aftermarket alternative for an item on our Jeeps that will eventually need to be replaced.

Some other points to consider: 1) As a company we already sell the Garrett turbo for this vehicle; 2)We are also a Bosch distributor. That means any Bosch part on the Liberty CRD should be available through us. 3) Offering the CAC is simply an evolutionary step much like other offerings in the aftermarket arena. Example: Samco, a company not affiliated with me or my employer in any way, markets the CAC replacement hoses. That offering was only given a "Go" after enough people said that they would be willing to buy them. An aftermarket CAC falls into the same category. Demand creates supply.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post and vote. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM or post.

Hoosier CRD

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:34 am

Let me be blunt: MADE IN CHINA .... #e!! NO
Made in USA, Canada (Maybe even Mexico), or Europe ...Yes, if the JB Weld does not fix it.

Using my Failure Analysis Training and based upon where Sir Sam found the leak so far on two units, I suspect the leak is at the gasket in the joint between the plastic tank and core. The suspect cause is the 300F hot blast of heated up charge air and oil mist. Get rid of the hot oil mist with EHM (like Sir Sam did) a Provent, or other good oil separator, the cause of the failure will diminish. Since JB Weld can handle 400F, Sir Sam may be happy on his fix for a long time.

Please ask your aftermarket manufacturer/supplier to design a fix to keep the heat off the joint (baffle, deflector, or aluminum plate...), use a better gasket that can take the 300F heat, and/or recommend an oil separator like Provent with the sale of the intercooler.
Since you are not having to collect funds to pay the wages to the Corporate Oxygen Thieves & Chair Warming Chrysler Fiat Bean Counters, putting an extra buck (or less) into the intercooler should be the way to go and make it better.

OH, the Aftermarket Radiators from China should be sold in Vending Machines, since they don't last (they are JUNK!), heard a lot of complaints.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:25 am

I voted yes. Assuming of course that I may need one someday I'm always willing to go aftermarket for a better and likely less expensive part than dealer. Not sure I'd do a proactive replacement like I did on the Samcos though mainly because I don't know how much trouble it is to do a replacement and I am looking at a GDE turbo upgrade soon which likely means TC upgrade also.

805gregg · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:13 pm

I had an expensive cold air system on my Dodge 3500 Diesel, the supposed 1,000,000 fiter would last about 15,000 miles, cost for new $85, after 3 of these and an expensive prefilter, didn't work, I couldn't pull a local grade to launch my boat. I took off that POS AFE filter and went back to my stock with $12 filters, I didn't notice any change in power except I can now tow up that local grade easily.

dieseldak · **Joined:** Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:53 pm **Posts:** 32

805gregg wrote:

I had an expensive cold air system on my Dodge 3500 Diesel, the supposed 1,000,000 fiter would last about 15,000 miles, cost for new $85, after 3 of these and an expensive prefilter, didn't work, I couldn't pull a local grade to launch my boat. I took off that POS AFE filter and went back to my stock with $12 filters, I didn't notice any change in power except I can now tow up that local grade easily.

I believe he is referring to new intercoolers.

I would be interested in one, I hae been playing with the idea of placing a larger Spearco unit I have here from one of my old race cars on my CRD. I hae neer been a fan of intercoolers with plastic end tanks, thats just asking for trouble if you ask me.

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

warp2diesel wrote:

Let me be blunt: MADE IN CHINA .... #e!! NO
Made in USA, Canada (Maybe even Mexico), or Europe ...Yes, if the JB Weld does not fix it..

OH, the Aftermarket Radiators from China should be sold in Vending Machines, since they don't last (they are JUNK!), heard a lot of complaints.

I agree, if it is kept here in the US I would buy on tomorrow.

NotPicky · **Posted:** Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:11 am

Would the new CAC be all aluminum? If so I'm game

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:30 am

If it's not made in china and is all metal I would be interested.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:16 pm

Count me in if they aren't made in Commie China. I want something that will LAST, not more of the same designed-to-fail CRAP that Chrysler stuck us with. This is supposed to be a JEEP, tough as nails. ALL METAL, NO PLASTIC. That is what I want. It cant be that much more expensive than the plastic to do it RIGHT for a change. Replacement parts should be an UPGRADE.

I guess I need to give mine a look, if they fail just by being used normally. Any chance a radiator repair shop could pull those end tanks and really repair the aluminum?

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:52 pm

Hey Guys,

As far as the construction, I'm uncertain. The other CACs that we market are all metal. When it comes to production for the light trucks, it may be different; I'll try to find out.

I must admit the NO "Made in China" point of view is refreshing and surprising at the same time. While I have no control over where the CAC would be made, I can ceratinly pass along your sentiments. That is not a kiss off statement. If management feels that they would sell far fewer due to origin, a change could occur. Admittedly, our CACs are currently produced in China. I don't like it either. I wonder where the OE ones are made?

Thanks for the responses so far; please keep them coming.

Hoosier CRD

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Not sure it matters whew its made if its high quality of course made in north America would be best.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:27 pm

In my experience, "High quality" and "China" do not belong in the same sentence, much less the same product. Think about things you use on a regular basis. Hand tools. We all have a collection, some larger than others. I probably have a ridiculously large collection by some standards.

Which tools have I never had to replace? The ones from the USA. This is something I have found to be without exception: If it is made in the USA, it is BETTER than it needs to be for the job it is designed for. I make a living using my gear and tools in ways that they probably weren't ever intended. Such is the way of the film and theatre industries. If we need something for a specific purpose, and we know it only needs to survive a few uses (think Mythbusters using drill motors for all kinds of small project motors) then China is where its at... B/c something from there will be CHEAP, and cheaply made. It might only make it a couple uses, but at least it was cheap, right?

I have taken hand wrenches and SNAPPED OFF the box part on a stuck nut, with just my bare hands and arms. I'm not a gorilla, these were Chinese wrenches. Solid steel, right? Then why did the casting inside look like they were diluted steel that had just been covered with pretty chrome dip? Of course, that is IF they even fit the nut properly, and didn't round it off (Or round THEMSELVES out) b/c the steel was too soft somehow.

I will HAPPILY pay more for AMERICAN parts and tools, even though the amount of money in my wallet is almost nothing. Why? Because I will only need to buy it ONCE. It is getting VERY hard to find USA-made tools in Home Depot. I'm dealing with a project right now, where I have to use self-drilling screws into thin wall mild steel. The screws are made by Crown Bolt... In Fecking Communist China. Out of about 20 that I put in this afternoon... 8 or so SHEARED OFF in the dang holes. That is about a 40% failure rate, on a fastener DESIGNED to do exactly what I am asking it to do! I'm not asking it to drill carbon steel here - Mild 1018 (I think that is the number) square tube stock steel! Easy to weld, easy to bend and cut... WTF? Oh right - Chinese quality.

Remember the crane collapses in NYC a few months ago? Turns out, the legs for those climbing cranes were made in China, from OUR OWN scrap steel that we sent off to have THEM make it into stuff. They sent back SUB STANDARD components, that somehow they managed to fool the quality tests. Hmm. There was a dock crane (Those monster things that pull the containers off ships and put them onto trucks) here in Savannah that had to be replaced... CHINA STEEL again.

A friend of mine owns a small machine shop here in Savannah. He was telling me about the scrap shipments he knew about (sells all his scrap for the weight) back a couple years ago, when the prices for scrap were like 18 cents a pound for steel. He said that of the raw tonnage that was going TO China, and the refined tonnage returning FROM... The returning was 50-60% of the weight of what went THERE. What are they doing with all that excess? It isn't a small amount, we are talking a LOT of tons here. Obviously the products like cranes that are coming back aren't up to the specs b/c the steel is lower density than it should be... This means we aren't getting what we are paying for.

I'll avoid China products wherever I can, thanks. Our economy would do better if more people thought about this and decided for themselves whether they want to support their own country or someone else's.

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:56 pm

I am interested as well but only if the cores are made in the US or in the EU. I am sure the rest can be made at your company. Cores are the hard part the rest is just some fabrication. If it falls through I have someone that can make one for me if I need it, in the USA.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:13 pm

CATCRD wrote:

If it's not made in china and is all metal I would be interested.

X2, absolutely!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 pm

Replacement aluminum tanks would be a good option. Sir Sam has fixed two with JB Weld that failed where the air stream coming out of the turbo blasts the back of the tank and the gasket leaks. I would be game to crimp and glue on a turbo side aluminum tank. Another option would be to TIG weld the aluminum tank onto the old core.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:18 pm

geordi wrote:

In my experience, "High quality" and "China" do not belong in the same sentence, much less the same product. Think about things you use on a regular basis. Hand tools. We all have a collection, some larger than others. I probably have a ridiculously large collection by some standards.

Which tools have I never had to replace? The ones from the USA. This is something I have found to be without exception: If it is made in the USA, it is BETTER than it needs to be for the job it is designed for. I make a living using my gear and tools in ways that they probably weren't ever intended. Such is the way of the film and theatre industries. If we need something for a specific purpose, and we know it only needs to survive a few uses (think Mythbusters using drill motors for all kinds of small project motors) then China is where its at... B/c something from there will be CHEAP, and cheaply made. It might only make it a couple uses, but at least it was cheap, right?

I have taken hand wrenches and SNAPPED OFF the box part on a stuck nut, with just my bare hands and arms. I'm not a gorilla, these were Chinese wrenches. Solid steel, right? Then why did the casting inside look like they were diluted steel that had just been covered with pretty chrome dip? Of course, that is IF they even fit the nut properly, and didn't round it off (Or round THEMSELVES out) b/c the steel was too soft somehow.

I will HAPPILY pay more for AMERICAN parts and tools, even though the amount of money in my wallet is almost nothing. Why? Because I will only need to buy it ONCE. It is getting VERY hard to find USA-made tools in Home Depot. I'm dealing with a project right now, where I have to use self-drilling screws into thin wall mild steel. The screws are made by Crown Bolt... In Fecking Communist China. Out of about 20 that I put in this afternoon... 8 or so SHEARED OFF in the dang holes. That is about a 40% failure rate, on a fastener DESIGNED to do exactly what I am asking it to do! I'm not asking it to drill carbon steel here - Mild 1018 (I think that is the number) square tube stock steel! Easy to weld, easy to bend and cut... WTF? Oh right - Chinese quality.

Remember the crane collapses in NYC a few months ago? Turns out, the legs for those climbing cranes were made in China, from OUR OWN scrap steel that we sent off to have THEM make it into stuff. They sent back SUB STANDARD components, that somehow they managed to fool the quality tests. Hmm. There was a dock crane (Those monster things that pull the containers off ships and put them onto trucks) here in Savannah that had to be replaced... CHINA STEEL again.

A friend of mine owns a small machine shop here in Savannah. He was telling me about the scrap shipments he knew about (sells all his scrap for the weight) back a couple years ago, when the prices for scrap were like 18 cents a pound for steel. He said that of the raw tonnage that was going TO China, and the refined tonnage returning FROM... The returning was 50-60% of the weight of what went THERE. What are they doing with all that excess? It isn't a small amount, we are talking a LOT of tons here. Obviously the products like cranes that are coming back aren't up to the specs b/c the steel is lower density than it should be... This means we aren't getting what we are paying for.

I'll avoid China products wherever I can, thanks. Our economy would do better if more people thought about this and decided for themselves whether they want to support their own country or someone else's.

Lots of the Steel Going to China is going into rebar and I beams for new buildings. Since the allowable tensile strength used for structural engineering calculations is 36,000 PSI, they can use the total crap for rebar and I beams. What they make things like Jack Stands and shop tools out of should be about 55,000 PSI tensile strength. Applications like Cranes and other heavy machinery need better quality alloys.
Best way to deal with any supplier is not pay them if they ship crap, even the Chinese learn that very fast if the buyer is smart enough to put it in the contract.

Look on the bright side, the next source of cheap labor will be Africa, lots of Business Management Majors are taking University Classes in the US and Europe and not so they can run Hotels.
For our Grand Children "Made in Ethiopia" will mean the same as "Made in Mexico" to US now and for them "Made in China" will be like "Made in Japan" is now. The real super crap will be "Made in Somalia" or "Made in Nigeria" :ROTFL:

Will Walmart sell it? :ROTFL:

drtydzel · **Posted:** Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:01 pm

I would be game for a better Intercooler, US made out metal/aluminum anything is better than plastic when you start playing with the boost.

Aftermarket Charge Air Coolers-would you buy?

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