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Did you sign it?
Yes 69%  69%  [ 22 ]
No 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Can't remember 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
Pat Buchanan 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 32
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 Post subject: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:33 pm 
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http://jeepdieselpetition.com/

Probably won't make a lick of difference.....but you never know.....

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Last edited by Sir Sam on Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:47 pm 
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It seems that the petition should be directed at CARB and the EPA. Hard to imagine how a DPF and Urea system could be stuffed into a Liberty or Wrangler platform.

I'm sure Jeep would love to sell diesels if they could, and still make money on them. Regulations=overhead.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:40 pm 
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Roostre wrote:
It seems that the petition should be directed at CARB and the EPA. Hard to imagine how a DPF and Urea system could be stuffed into a Liberty or Wrangler platform..


Physical space constraints would not be a problem in a JK or KK for DPF or urea injection.

Interim Tier IV, and Tier IV emissions are what they are. Better to stop complaining and move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Not complaining. Just stating an opinion. Wrong or not.

I don't want a diesel with all that crap on it and neither do most consumers. (Hence the huge aftermarket for DPF removal kits.)

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:31 pm 
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I wrote an email to the CEO Marchionne about this. Two weeks later, I got a pleasant email from one of the VP's.

....Therefore, your idea for offering diesel powertrains in our U.S. Jeep vehicles will be given serious consideration as we decided future product plans for the Jeep lineup. This recommendation is very timely as fuel economy is a top concern of our Jeep customers and diesel engines will provide a significant improvement to the current fuel economy of these vehicles....

promising email :)

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:34 am 
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Well, it only took a small number of us to harass Samco into making hoses for us. Maybe if we deluge them with emails in a short time span we can get more feedback/response.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:54 am 
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I already have 2, and I am not committing myself to buying another one complete with the payment book that goes with it. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:43 am 
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No, it was a politically smart email reply.

I posted about the marketing drivel in another thread here a while back. They will ALWAYS have small diesels "in the pipeline" or "soon to be released" and always just "2-3 model years out from current" to do two things:

1: Make you feel happy that they listened to you (while not actually doing ANYTHING in the meantime) so that you will consider that manufacturer when you (they hope) need a vehicle in that ensuing 2-3 years.

2: Keep you reading all their marketing drivel in hopes of reading something about the diesels they have promised... And instead, reading about everything in their lineup, saturating you with information about THEM, and not about competitor X... So again when you eventually need a vehicle, they have established a "I'll look at this brand first since I know so much about them" kind of subconscious thought in your brain... And your chances of buying that brand are much higher than of competitor X.

Marketing 101 - Never tell the customer "No" in any direct way, and do everything you can to keep your name in the front of their brain in a positive way. The customer only has room for so much data up there... Wouldn't you rather it be data about your product?

What Chrysler doesn't realize is that they have been VERY effective at keeping our thoughts centered around our Jeeps and Chrysler in general, but in a BAD way b/c of their design and complete abandonment of the diesel KJ platform in the USA. My family will NEVER purchase another Chrysler product, period. Not exactly the stellar marketing job they were hoping for, but effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:49 am 
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Sir Sam wrote:
Roostre wrote:
It seems that the petition should be directed at CARB and the EPA. Hard to imagine how a DPF and Urea system could be stuffed into a Liberty or Wrangler platform..


Physical space constraints would not be a problem in a JK or KK for DPF or urea injection.

Interim Tier IV, and Tier IV emissions are what they are. Better to stop complaining and move on.


Lets move on :roll:

Lets say Sir Sam is out for a ride in his CRD on a beautiful day in the CO Rockies, behind him is some commie politician doing the same thing. The commie politicians ride becomes spoiled by Sir Sam's CRD emitting normal diesel exhaust. Commie politician says, "There ought to be a law against diesels in small vehicles like that." :furious: Commie Politician goes back to his cushy job and writes a new bill to outlaw any diesel vehicle that is not owned and used buy a business for commercial use only, minimum GVW 12'500 unladen weight. Of course all of his colleges agree, as they are not common people like us, they are an elected dynasty. End of story no more diesel cars or light trucks manufactured or sold in the US.

That Sir Sam, is why we should not just stick our heads in the sand like a dumbed down peon and just accept what we are fed. :dizzy:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Did anyone read in the paper this week that GM is "going to" release a Cruze with a Diesel engine in 2013 :?: It's already available in Austrailia.
http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/153839 ... cruze.html

And Eura is not necessarly a given, look at current VW TDI's. Yes I know their system still needs some debugging :juggle:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:49 pm 
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And here is some more info on that:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... ng-to-us/1

http://www.dailytech.com/Chevrolet+Cruz ... e22130.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Roostre wrote:
I don't want a diesel with all that crap on it and neither do most consumers. (Hence the huge aftermarket for DPF removal kits.)


I don't know who is going to make these kits unless the new Jeep Diesel gets a big following, no one has done it for the Sprinter van and they have had a DPF since 2007, and alot more Sprinters on the road then CRDs.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:30 pm 
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Sprinters aren't used for enthusiasts, they are used as work vans. The marketplace for mods of work vehicles runs to work-enhancing, not performance. Anything that trades possible longevity for performance will make a business think of increased cost and increased liability, as well as the "But emission gear is required, removal or disabling is bound to be illegal" thinking that they would have.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:17 pm 
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The Urea and SCR catalyst would be necessary on the Jeep due to its mass and coefficient of drag. This is also beneficial for acheiving improved fuel economy over a lean NOx trap as less EGR is needed and no cycling between lean/rich mode.

The "diesel" option would cost the Jeep about $4000-$5000 in hardware alone. This would have to be passed on to the consumer and may dissuade many potential buyers.

Jeep must hybridize or dieselize their product line in the next 5-6 years or they will have major struggles meeting the new CAFE standards.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Or... Random thought... They could try building a vehicle that it's dead weight (sans engine) is NOT in the 3800 lb range.

Think I'm kidding? I have the scale sheets that show the weight of my CRD (which was just about empty at the time) of 4300 lbs. The raw block got me 300 lbs of scrap iron cash, and I'm being conservative at saying there is about another 300 lbs of crap around that engine block - I don't think all the parts I have weigh that much b/c I have them all in a big deck-box and I can move it around by myself. That is a full head, exhaust manifold, and all of the engine accessories other than the AC comp and alternator. Plus a full collection of dead parts and spare bolts from the old engine.

What the hell weighs so much in a UNIBODY vehicle? I thought the point of a unibody was to make the vehicle LIGHTER at the same time retaining the strength of a body-on-frame build. Looks like they lined the floor with lead plate insulation. Even my v8 Grand Cherokee fully-equipped only weighs in at 3800 - WITH twice the engine!

Thoughts? They both have similar equipment, ABS / airbag /4wd / similar tire size / full size spare / seat 5... Yet the GC is bigger, and lighter. What changed in 8 years between them?

Frankly, the cost penalty and the whining about emissions is going to do exactly nothing to solve the problem: They need to go to the main option for increased mileage and better performance that a petrol hybrid just can't offer. Smaller engines that drink diesel are really the only way, and if they are connected to the wheels by ELECTRIC only (as in the Volt - NO mechanical link btw the "generator" and the wheels) then the efficiency can be driven to the maximum, and we won't even need transmissions or transfer cases anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:22 am 
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geordi wrote:
Sprinters aren't used for enthusiasts, they are used as work vans. The marketplace for mods of work vehicles runs to work-enhancing, not performance. Anything that trades possible longevity for performance will make a business think of increased cost and increased liability, as well as the "But emission gear is required, removal or disabling is bound to be illegal" thinking that they would have.


I am just saying, don't expect too much in mods for a niche vehicle, like a few year run on a diesel Jeep. How many mods are there for our CRDs? And like GDE is saying, sounds more like a fantasy that we will see another Jeep diesel, the GC CRD was a very short lived experiment on the buying populace.

BTW, some of the Sprinter guys are looking for a DPF bypass pipe, if there is a vendor willing to make this sort of kit :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:57 am 
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Why can't Jeep do it? :SOMBRERO:
There are a number of good diesel engines they could use :!:
UPS is experimenting with the Utilimaster / Isuzu CV-23. The 150-horsepower truck utilizes an Isuzu four-cylinder diesel engine and a six-speed Aisin automatic transmission. The engine is smaller than a traditional UPS diesel engine and the hope is the smaller engine will sip less fuel during daily operations. Our UPS delivery truck has a 4 cyl. Mercedes.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:24 am 
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Of course they could do it, but it has to have a valid business case...ie will they make a profit? The Grand Cherokee CRD is already being developed for a US release, but the price point is not in line with what most diesel customers want since Chrysler prefers to bundle the CRD with many other vehicle options to hide the costs. The Wrangler would be the obvious choice and will most likely be here when the Euro VI emissions go into effect abroad. With Euro VI the export models will need SCR and DPF, so the only changes for US market would be calibration.

The Wrangler currently uses a 200 hp VM Motori 2.8l CRD and rumblings are it will be downsized to around 2.2l CRD for Euro VI.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:06 pm 
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The biggest problems with engines Diesel and gasser alike are EPA regulations, some of which are based upon Junk Science. Legitimate regulations cite compounds such as CO and Hydrocarbons and these are not in dispute, but CO2 emissions (and Water next) are total Junk Science garbage. My brother who works for Ford has told me some of the upcoming regulations that will apply to gassers like particulate filters and urea, yup they get them too, not just us diesel junkies. I still want my next 4X4 to be a Diesel.

For entertainment and my ranting, here is some of the EPA crap I get to put up with:
One example I ran into today was a customer a small Illinois town on the Illinois river that had to have a Water Softener installed to better clean the lab glass wear (to get rid of the lime spots) used for the tests so they can pass the EPA regulations.
Another example last week was a waste water plant in Missouri on the Missouri river who had to pass a BOD test on what they put into the dumpster from their screenings washer compactor. The stupid EPA created BOD test does not distinguish between the Fecal that the plant wants removed and properly treat, from the vegies and grease dumped down the kitchen garbage disposal that should be composted or sent to the land fill any way. After I explained the differences in the components of the BOD, the Plant Superintendent was able to get the Consulting Engineer to eliminate the EPA created BOD testing requirement. They did not want all the grease washed into the plant process.
In my opinion, the EPA is one of the Government agencies that needs to be down sized, big time.

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 Post subject: Re: Jeep Diesel Petition:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Its those "aging liberal douche acid headed hippies" at it again, right Warp?

:ROTFL:

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