LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Starting problems again HELP

There's another "slow start" thread going on :jester:

Except we're in the US and 50 degreed F seems to be the spot where they get "cranky" here. Mine has been that way since new and a new Sears P1 battery cured it :BANANA:

I just used a conversion chart and 12c is 53.6f so definetly check into your battery
It's never cranked as fast as it does now even when new :JEEPIN:

I had replaced my Red Top with another Red Top last year. Red Top's fully charged voltage per their site is 12.6 to 12.8 volts. My P1 is 13.2 volts fully charged.
Here's the thread :SOMBRERO:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63238
Here's a link to the Sears P1 battery but I doubt it will do you any good in the UK :wink:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G2

I used my charger one morning before starting the jeep as a test on my Optima Red Top to see if having a peak charge would help. I was able to get the voltage to 12.9 volts before my automatic charger shut off and it definetly helped starting. A new battery worked out good for me as my wife's 2000 Cherokee needed a battery and they both use the same size so it got my one year old Red Top :jester:

There have been posts as long as I've been a member here where some have doubted that the Red Top was a good choice for our CRD's :juggle:

(1) you ARE waiting for the glow plug light to go out before attempting to crank, right?
(2) it is typical for a diesel to be a bit harder to start than a gasser at any given temperature.
(3) have you plugged in the block heater?
(4) in any case, my 2005, 2.8L CRD also often takes 5-15 seconds to start when stone cold those mornings the overnight low has dropped in the neighborhood of freezing. But it also always starts, even if it does take a bit longer. For what it is worth, it does NOT take longer to start when the temperature is down near -15 C than it does at +8 C.

How many clicks does your Cherokee have?

On a common rail diesel system, white smoke on startup, is an indication of a high rate of fuel return. This points to a failing injector(s). Given that all have the same amount of wear, if they are determined to be bad, I would highly recommend replacing the set rather than one at a time.

If there is a shop you can access that can remove and test your injectors on a test stand, this should tell you the state of their performance.

FWIW

Hoosier CRD

Any chance the red lightning bolt is lit up on your CRD? European CRDs do not turn on the CEL for failed glow plugs. It might be worthwhile to check the stored faults with a code reader.

There have been posts as long as I've been a member here where some have doubted that the Red Top was a good choice for our CRD's :juggle:

i would have the injectors tested whit smoke would indicate that atleast one is leaking and not building presure i am not sure if they can be removes and tested on a pop tester or not.

White smoke is a sign of glow plug problems or very cold temperatures. On US/North American models a glow plug problem lights the cel but on his UK model the cel does not light for a glow plug problem per GDE. So The next step is to check the glow plugs or have the dealer scan it for codes that don't set the cel :JEEPIN:

Joe Romas wrote:

Thanks Joe
Yes i think thats the next step, i did all this earlier on in the year had new plug and diagnostic check still didnt change a thing but i think i need to start at the beginning again , it'll be a few weeks till i can get that done going in for opp on my back next week, surpose i can get the jeep dealer to scan it while im off :ALONE:

Finally got around to taking the jeep to the dealers yesterday they witnessed the hard start problem to, had full diagnostics done, fuel pressure tested, glowplugs tested, plus injectors to, everything showed up ok no error codes nothing showed up at all , now im scatching my head thought they might of come up with something but nothing couldn't even recommend anything to try either, :banghead:

Finally got around to checking voltage of the red top :juggle:

, the temp was 7 degC voltage showed 12.2v on battery turned key on that dropped to 11.7v took about 10 seconds to start while crankin it dropped to about 9 - 9.5v :frankie:

, with the engine running voltage is running at 14v

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Starting problems again HELP
Hi Guys help needed again Jeep Cherokee 2.8crd 2005 Thought i had sorted this starting problem out when i had the injection pump overalled and its been startin first time all summer, as the temp up and down at the moment ive noticed if the temps above 12 deg it starts first time morning noon and night no problem, but if the temp drops below 12 deg it takes 3 to 4 cranks of the engine to start which is not to bad to get started then its first time the rest of the day, if the temp drops below 8 deg it takes about 10-15 seconds to start first with a cloud of white smoke then its first time for the rest of the day, Ive only got to look at the centre console now to check temp and say how long to start, SAD i know but this is what its turned me into now,

Author:	Joe Romas [ Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
There's another "slow start" thread going on Except we're in the US and 50 degreed F seems to be the spot where they get "cranky" here. Mine has been that way since new and a new Sears P1 battery cured it I just used a conversion chart and 12c is 53.6f so definetly check into your battery It's never cranked as fast as it does now even when new I had replaced my Red Top with another Red Top last year. Red Top's fully charged voltage per their site is 12.6 to 12.8 volts. My P1 is 13.2 volts fully charged. Here's the thread viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63238 Here's a link to the Sears P1 battery but I doubt it will do you any good in the UK http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G2

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
Joe Romas wrote: There's another "slow start" thread going on Except we're in the US and 50 degreed F seems to be the spot where they get "cranky" here. Mine has been that way since new and a new Sears P1 battery cured it I just used a conversion chart and 12c is 53.6f so definetly check into your battery It's never cranked as fast as it does now even when new I had replaced my Red Top with another Red Top last year. Red Top's fully charged voltage per their site is 12.6 to 12.8 volts. My P1 is 13.2 volts fully charged. Here's the thread viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63238 Here's a link to the Sears P1 battery but I doubt it will do you any good in the UK http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G2 Thanks for that I replaced my battery march this year with one of those red tops looks like 6 cans of beer with red top i must admit it did seam to start a bit quicker after that ill do some enquires into those batterys over here i try anything just to speed start up time just to cut the white smoke part out ,

Author:	Joe Romas [ Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
I used my charger one morning before starting the jeep as a test on my Optima Red Top to see if having a peak charge would help. I was able to get the voltage to 12.9 volts before my automatic charger shut off and it definetly helped starting. A new battery worked out good for me as my wife's 2000 Cherokee needed a battery and they both use the same size so it got my one year old Red Top There have been posts as long as I've been a member here where some have doubted that the Red Top was a good choice for our CRD's

Author:	naturist [ Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
(1) you ARE waiting for the glow plug light to go out before attempting to crank, right? (2) it is typical for a diesel to be a bit harder to start than a gasser at any given temperature. (3) have you plugged in the block heater? (4) in any case, my 2005, 2.8L CRD also often takes 5-15 seconds to start when stone cold those mornings the overnight low has dropped in the neighborhood of freezing. But it also always starts, even if it does take a bit longer. For what it is worth, it does NOT take longer to start when the temperature is down near -15 C than it does at +8 C.

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Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
Joe Romas wrote: I used my charger one morning before starting the jeep as a test on my Optima Red Top to see if having a peak charge would help. I was able to get the voltage to 12.9 volts before my automatic charger shut off and it definetly helped starting. A new battery worked out good for me as my wife's 2000 Cherokee needed a battery and they both use the same size so it got my one year old Red Top There have been posts as long as I've been a member here where some have doubted that the Red Top was a good choice for our CRD's Thanks for your advice the weather forcast is to drop a bit colder over the next few day ill give the charger a go, does yours blow white smoke out on a long crank, Thanks Ade

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
naturist wrote: (1) you ARE waiting for the glow plug light to go out before attempting to crank, right? (2) it is typical for a diesel to be a bit harder to start than a gasser at any given temperature. (3) have you plugged in the block heater? (4) in any case, my 2005, 2.8L CRD also often takes 5-15 seconds to start when stone cold those mornings the overnight low has dropped in the neighborhood of freezing. But it also always starts, even if it does take a bit longer. For what it is worth, it does NOT take longer to start when the temperature is down near -15 C than it does at +8 C. Thanks for that, yes always wait for glow plug light to go out and the UK models dont come with block heaters fitted shame, does yours blow white smoke out on a long crank?

Author:	Hoosier CRD [ Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
How many clicks does your Cherokee have? On a common rail diesel system, white smoke on startup, is an indication of a high rate of fuel return. This points to a failing injector(s). Given that all have the same amount of wear, if they are determined to be bad, I would highly recommend replacing the set rather than one at a time. If there is a shop you can access that can remove and test your injectors on a test stand, this should tell you the state of their performance. FWIW Hoosier CRD

Author:	GreenDieselEngineering [ Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
Any chance the red lightning bolt is lit up on your CRD? European CRDs do not turn on the CEL for failed glow plugs. It might be worthwhile to check the stored faults with a code reader.

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
Hoosier CRD wrote: How many clicks does your Cherokee have? On a common rail diesel system, white smoke on startup, is an indication of a high rate of fuel return. This points to a failing injector(s). Given that all have the same amount of wear, if they are determined to be bad, I would highly recommend replacing the set rather than one at a time. If there is a shop you can access that can remove and test your injectors on a test stand, this should tell you the state of their performance. FWIW Hoosier CRD The white smoke only happens when it takes about 10 seconds plus to start not sure how many clicks never counted , dueing the summer no smoke nor once started dueing cold days, and at the moment the temp over here is around 5degC - 10 deg C and it taking around 3-4 cranks but no smoke which i can live with, i had this issue last winter to, i had injectors flow tested then they were all Ok looks like another test, i had new glow plugs fitted to which turned into a complete overall as number 3 glowplug was carboned on to head which snapped as we tryed to get it out, had the latest fuel filter housing, fuel pressure regulator, battery fitted ect £1200+ bill around $1900 ouch i was hoping it was cured but not, as this was doing this before any work was carried out earlier in the year, i would of thought if it was injectors it would of been doing this all through the summer i only said that cause the jeep started first time this morning it was mild overnight 13 deg, yesturday was 8 deg and took 3-4 cranks,

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
Joe Romas wrote: I used my charger one morning before starting the jeep as a test on my Optima Red Top to see if having a peak charge would help. I was able to get the voltage to 12.9 volts before my automatic charger shut off and it definetly helped starting. A new battery worked out good for me as my wife's 2000 Cherokee needed a battery and they both use the same size so it got my one year old Red Top There have been posts as long as I've been a member here where some have doubted that the Red Top was a good choice for our CRD's Finally got around to checking voltage of the red top , the temp was 7 degC voltage showed 12.2v on battery turned key on that dropped to 11.7v took about 10 seconds to start while crankin it dropped to about 9 - 9.5v , with the engine running voltage is running at 14v

Author:	crd351 [ Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
i would have the injectors tested whit smoke would indicate that atleast one is leaking and not building presure i am not sure if they can be removes and tested on a pop tester or not.

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
crd351 wrote: i would have the injectors tested whit smoke would indicate that atleast one is leaking and not building presure i am not sure if they can be removes and tested on a pop tester or not. Im no machanic but I would of thought i would have white smoke every time i started it in a morning but i only get the white smoke when its below 7-8 deg C then its takes upto 10 seconds to start, starts fine for the rest of the day, which at the moment ere in the UK the Temps up and down as ive mentioned before above 12 deg C it'll starts first time no problem below that to about 8 deg C it takes 3-4 cranks but below that as just mentioned it takes upto 10 seconds, had this all last year to first time starting every day through summer no problem colder temperture comes then as above, its consistant, im getting to now the temp by the amount of cranks the jeep does now sad i know, jeep had it last year and came up with nothing apart from a bill for diagnostic check, had new glowplugs Feb this year that didn't change anything + new red top battery and new filter and housing still the same,

Author:	Joe Romas [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
White smoke is a sign of glow plug problems or very cold temperatures. On US/North American models a glow plug problem lights the cel but on his UK model the cel does not light for a glow plug problem per GDE. So The next step is to check the glow plugs or have the dealer scan it for codes that don't set the cel

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Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
Joe Romas wrote: White smoke is a sign of glow plug problems or very cold temperatures. On US/North American models a glow plug problem lights the cel but on his UK model the cel does not light for a glow plug problem per GDE. So The next step is to check the glow plugs or have the dealer scan it for codes that don't set the cel Thanks Joe Yes i think thats the next step, i did all this earlier on in the year had new plug and diagnostic check still didnt change a thing but i think i need to start at the beginning again , it'll be a few weeks till i can get that done going in for opp on my back next week, surpose i can get the jeep dealer to scan it while im off

Author:	crd351 [ Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
it seems more like a glow plug problem. On my duramax it started getting that way and soon it was doing it every time not only when it was cold i put in injectors and it cleared up, and i had to do 8 at 435 each plus 15hrs labor now that SUCKED

Author:	whosthedaddy07 [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
whosthedaddy07 wrote: Joe Romas wrote: White smoke is a sign of glow plug problems or very cold temperatures. On US/North American models a glow plug problem lights the cel but on his UK model the cel does not light for a glow plug problem per GDE. So The next step is to check the glow plugs or have the dealer scan it for codes that don't set the cel Thanks Joe Yes i think thats the next step, i did all this earlier on in the year had new plug and diagnostic check still didnt change a thing but i think i need to start at the beginning again , it'll be a few weeks till i can get that done going in for opp on my back next week, surpose i can get the jeep dealer to scan it while im off Finally got around to taking the jeep to the dealers yesterday they witnessed the hard start problem to, had full diagnostics done, fuel pressure tested, glowplugs tested, plus injectors to, everything showed up ok no error codes nothing showed up at all , now im scatching my head thought they might of come up with something but nothing couldn't even recommend anything to try either,

Author:	Joe Romas [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
whosthedaddy07 wrote: Finally got around to taking the jeep to the dealers yesterday they witnessed the hard start problem to, had full diagnostics done, fuel pressure tested, glowplugs tested, plus injectors to, everything showed up ok no error codes nothing showed up at all , now im scatching my head thought they might of come up with something but nothing couldn't even recommend anything to try either, Since we're starting over. On a cold morning beg, borrow or steal a battery charger and "top off" your Red Top battery before starting. Or leave it on overnight if you can. Then see what happens. Both my original Red Top since the first winter and the second Red Top I replaced it with caused mine to start slow at the same temperatures your having problems. My Sears P1 battery totally eliminated my slow starting and the engine never cranked faster

Author:	ATXKJ [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Starting problems again HELP
whosthedaddy07 wrote: Finally got around to checking voltage of the red top , the temp was 7 degC voltage showed 12.2v on battery turned key on that dropped to 11.7v took about 10 seconds to start while crankin it dropped to about 9 - 9.5v , with the engine running voltage is running at 14v I'm not impressed with 9 -9.5v - I think that's marginal. it's a shame - Optima's used to be really good - and then they sold the company - changed manufacturing..... no confidence in them now (mine's struggling too.. and it's not that cold.. 2 year old yellow top)