Gearing up for timing belt job this weekend

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:58 am

Yep I guess the big question is can I get past the jitters of disassembling the most expensive vehicle we've owned in more than a decade. It is supposed to be nice here in northern New Mexico today and tomorrow ~65° windy though, but that good we have an axial flux wind turbine changing 12 batteries for our entertainment system for when I get done.

I'm a compulsive chronicler; I've done a morning newsletter since 1999 http://outfitnm.com but I think this job is going to require that I focus on it instead of taking pictures. We do have a WiFI PC in the shop so I'll keep these super valuable threads at http://lostjeeps.com open, yeah that keyboard is already greasy :JEEPIN:

Anyway, wish me luck and god-speed I've got two whole days to do this job

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:05 am

Take your time, witness mark lots of stuff, have a place to neatly lay out what you take off in order so it can go back in order, and maybe take pictures as you disassembly and it should go well.

During the timing belt south party a couple of weeks ago (geordi as lead on changing lggoobar's TB) we noted a couple of things: 1) the Miller flywheel tool is threaded and the threads it goes into were more than a bit gummed up so we fell back to the 6mm allen key, since that allen key is not a tight fit once you insert it be sure to probe around on the flywheel to make sure you are inserting it into the locking hole (apparently there are some other openings in the flywheel that can fool you); 2) both the TB and serpentine belt go back on much easier if you do the final install on an idler pulley which has no lip as opposed to pulleys with a lip (neither tensioner produces much slack in the belt); 3) be careful with the TB tensioner bolt, on geordi's used engine and lgoodbar's untouched engine there was a helicoil (apparently OEM) installed in that bolt hole which can back out especially if you attempt to install the tensioner last (once we fixed that problem we did the final TB install per #2 above).

I cannot offer much on getting the fan off other than we used the Lisle pneumatic fan clutch tool and had the fan off in about 15 minutes. The tool was not a complete success as there was not enough tension on the serpentine belt to keep the fan from slipping but the addition of a long (16") screwdriver wedged down in there to help hold things combined with the tool did the trick. When you put the fan back on you might consider some anti-seize and don't attempt to tighten it down much; as the engine spins the fan essentially self tightens so there is no need to godzilla it down and make future removal hard.

Enjoy. We did not rush and had the job done in something like 5 hrs, not counting the trip to the parts store for a replacement helicoil. That did not include doing the water pump; had one on hand but the existing one had no signs of water leakage, bearing lube leakage, or bearing play.

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:17 am

I had to google the fan clutch tool http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-43300-Pneumatic-Clutch-Wrench/dp/B000JFJLTC Not certain from this picture what makes it pneumatic, maybe the mechanics' deep sighs

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:27 am

Yes, I also have the water pump just in case. Also have a new heavy-duty fan clutch, new HOAT, I hope everything is correct. I've got to say the Moparparts while expensive did cross check parts to my VIN# and amended the water pump model very nice feature. Promotes confidence after going to all the trouble to get to the timing belt.
thanks for the info
I've got a fire in the barrel stove in my shop, twin cylinder compressor is warming up too, better get with it
Brian Rodgers

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:25 pm

On that fan clutch tool the long bar has a fitting at one end that fits into the hook at the end of the wrench and the other end of the long bar fits into an air hammer. See video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU_cpAoNvdA Like I said it wasn't quite that easy but it sure beat any other posted method.

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:28 pm

I'm on my way in, barely, had to clean the shop first :oops:

Which direction does the nut on the fan clutch loosen? I'm thinking clockwise
B

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:35 pm

Whoops, I looked at the threads on the new fan clutch;they're regular; counterclockwise

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:53 pm

Yep on the fan but watch it on the other items as several of the bolts you need to pull are reverse thread.

By the way pay carefull attention to the various pulley bearings. If there is no sign of grease leakage or play then there is likely no urgent need to replace them although others have a different opinion and feel that things should be replaced as a matter of routine.

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:38 pm

Brian's CRD
I'm at the timing belt

I noticed while removing the viscous fan clutch that it looked like the nuts and bolts had been removed before. In the back of my mind I hoped the unknown previous owner had already done the timing belt.

I can't tell, but if I had to guess this doesn't look like a belt with a 120k miles on it.

If you can see in this low res image there are paint pen timing marks on the rear timing belt cover

curious not definitive

Above is a closeup of the belt. There is some wear, and I will probably replace it anyway. If those with more experience would chime in, I'd be much obliged :SOMBRERO:

Brian Rodgers

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:46 pm

Looks like a belt typical of 100k+

Boss · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:05 pm

Thank you Sir Sam
what method is used to lock the cams, injector pump and crank in place while swapping the belt?

jeepdan · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:09 pm

Boss wrote:

Thank you Sir Sam
what method is used to lock the cams, injector pump and crank in place while swapping the belt?

not geared up enough :shock:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:47 pm

Boss wrote:

Thank you Sir Sam
what method is used to lock the cams, injector pump and crank in place while swapping the belt?

If you are not replacing the water pump you can get away with just marking the cams and such before taking it apart.

However I would really recommend you have the proper tools, and if your thinking about replacing the water pump you NEED to have them. The cam pulleys are a press fit and there is nothing that keeps the pulley timed to the cams.

I get the feeling you may not have read this yet, so make sure you take a gander through my somewhat disorganized writeup:
http://colorado4wheel.com/content/KJ_TB.html

Also, here are photos of the timing belt specific tools, you can make your own tensioner tool and if you are not replacing the water pump you can get away with just marking the gears and crank.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62477

Also make sure you check the idler pulleys, they can be hit or miss, sometimes they are ok to good, other times they need to be replaced.

Boss · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 am

Quote:

However I would really recommend you have the proper tools, and if your thinking about replacing the water pump you NEED to have them. The cam pulleys are a press fit and there is nothing that keeps the pulley timed to the cams.

Crap, typical though, all the reading I did prior to doing this job, and I didn't notice the mention of the three special tools. Unfortunately for me I kept getting distracted by posts like "disconnect the fuel heater" "clean the MAP sensor" "SEGR" "ECO tune" :oops:

Now that I see that the cam gear lock is for not only holding the cams in position while replacing the belt, more importantly it holds the gears while the nuts are torqued.

I wonder why the FSM is laid out in a such a peculiar fashion: For instance removing the inner timing belt cover is described before removing the outer TB cover. This is my first Mopar vehicle so I don't know if the 2005 Jeep Liberty FSM is typical, but I am not impressed by this book which cost nearly $200.

By the time I read this much in a Ford FSM I knew how air-conditioning worked, and OBD, Just sayin, have other mechanics questioned the layout of the FSMs? Instead of listing the page number the book suggests we refer to section 9 - Timing Cover Inner. which wouldn't be terrible if they had an index, sigh. Some pages are filled with this gibberish: refer to 7 - Viscous Fan Clutch Removal, so much so that they never get to the point of making it clear where anything thing is. I'm disappointed in the Mopar FSM.

Anyway, I am to the timing belt, it wasn't too bad to get to, certainly easier than a transverse engine tranny job. I haven't been a mechanic in over twenty five years, in case you're wondering about my expertise. I have for fun put a OBD TBI 4.3 liter Chevy V6 in a Mercedes Benz 240d creating what I called a Merchevy. That was back before I knew the value of a diesel engine obviously. My point is I know how to mod. My speciality was electronics, now that is as far behind me like the mechanic job.

It seems like I will be making some tools today, Let me read through your write up Sir Sam and see if there is a picture of the two cam lock tools.

One problem I'm having is the skid plate has one bolt that won't come out. I can tighten it with an impact wrench to try and reseat the insert, but it still spins when I back it off, It is the drivers side rear nut. I am assuming that is exactly where the flex plate hex key crank lock pin hole is. :banghead:

Actually the Jeep has been very nice to work on, I'm not complaining just looking for the smart(er) way through this.
Brian Rodgers

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:43 am

I hope you didn't buy the FSM.......we have the PDF of both the 05 and 06 online for free........

Ya the FSM leaves quite a bit to be desired talking about the timing belt job. Next time I do a timing belt I'm going to take a metric butt-ton of photos to document the process better.

You don't need to get the engine skid plate out of the way to get to the flywheel flex plate hole.

But like I said before, if your not replacing the water pump you can just mark all the gears really well and put the new belt on. Make sure there is no slack between the crank and the IP pulley, if there is turn the crank CCW a bit, get the belt on the teeth, then turn it back CW until your alignment marks are correct(after getting the two cam on properly with the belt and the IP and such.), this will set the correct timing between the cams and the crank, and then give you enough slack to get the timing belt over the tensioner.

I really need to do another TB so I can better document all of this, I've done enough by now that I've gotten the process pretty well down, but need some pictures/videos to communicate it better to people.

DynoPax · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:59 am

Brian,

Have a quick look at the following:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62695

This is the tool I devised to help lock in the cams. Others also suggested even more simpler ways...

Good luck!

Boss · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:50 am

Okay perfect

Yep, I bought the FSM soon after we bought the Jeep, as I do with all of our major investments, who knew? Now this forum, rocks though, and more than makes up for the crappy FSM, :BANANA:

thanks everyone :BANANA:

Brian

Boss · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:38 pm

I'm looking for the A.T.D.C. access hole on an automatic tranny. The book does not indicate near-by devices, like starter or exhaust. I'm assuming the access hole is parallel to the crankshaft on the flywheel gear.
I just got that, "Not geared up enough," comment, true and funny, but try to remember the first time you did a particular job. Nobody can be completely prepared, what makes us good, is how gracefully we can do "workarounds" to get it done properly with what we have on hand. For instance; I live 12 miles north of the one horse town of Las Vegas New Mexico. There is no running to the parts store for me, unless I want to hear, " Jeep makes a diesel, well I'll be?" :rockon:

Brian

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:16 pm

Open up document linked at http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/72.page and scroll to the end (hint rear of engine block passenger side kind of "up" from the oil filter area). Also Section 9, 2.8l engine, Valve timing has a decent picture of the correct position of a 6mm hex key to lock this if you are using a hex key.

Boss · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Cool got it, thank you so much. When I get back to my Linux PC I'll screenshot that image and post it here.
Brian

Gearing up for timing belt job this weekend

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