Chrysler Subterfuge?

whitedog · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:28 pm

Squeeto wrote:

Old:
__ control unit - 56044671AA (Bosch 0 281 003 034)
__ plug- 05142577AA

The owner dropped these parts off to me today. He told me that the GPs are original (as well as the 160,000 mile timing belt!) so it is my understanding that the ECU does NOT need to be reflashed. Can someone verify this for me before I start digging?

Thanks.

Nevermind, I took my glasses off and finally saw where it says 7.0V. This means that they are a direct drop-in.

whitedog · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:42 pm

Newest question. I see all of this talk about the relay or control module included with this "kit" and the guy dropped off with the glow plugs, relay 04727370AA. I haven't found a picture of what the relay in this "kit" looks like, but i'm wondering if it's the relay that sits out there behind the battery. If so, this ain't it because the one I have is a standard five pin relay.

Thoughts?

whosthedaddy07 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:10 pm

whitedog wrote:

Newest question. I see all of this talk about the relay or control module included with this "kit" and the guy dropped off with the glow plugs, relay 04727370AA. I haven't found a picture of what the relay in this "kit" looks like, but i'm wondering if it's the relay that sits out there behind the battery. If so, this ain't it because the one I have is a standard five pin relay.

Thoughts?

The only time you need to replace the module is if you fit the new 5v gp then the ecm needs reflashing, the glowplug module does sits behind the battery with a Bosch 56044671AA on it or AB - AC updated versions for 7v, the relay youve got can fit Aircon / Starter its a commonlly used relay in the Power Distribution Center (PDC). The molded plastic PDC housing is located in the left front corner of the engine compartment, between the battery and the grille.

whitedog · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:55 pm

whosthedaddy07 wrote:

whitedog wrote:

Newest question. I see all of this talk about the relay or control module included with this "kit" and the guy dropped off with the glow plugs, relay 04727370AA. I haven't found a picture of what the relay in this "kit" looks like, but i'm wondering if it's the relay that sits out there behind the battery. If so, this ain't it because the one I have is a standard five pin relay.

Thoughts?

The only time you need to replace the module is if you fit the new 5v gp then the ecm needs reflashing, the glowplug module does sits behind the battery with a Bosch 56044671AA on it or AB - AC updated versions for 7v, the relay youve got can fit Aircon / Starter its a commonlly used relay in the Power Distribution Center (PDC). The molded plastic PDC housing is located in the left front corner of the engine compartment, between the battery and the grille.

Thank you.

Now can you send me a water pump? Seriously. We can't get them over here right now. At least I can't. I saw one on Ebay UK, and since the guy is at 160,000 miles on his original TB, he needs this done soon.

Seriously. PM me if you can help out.

Doggie.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:58 pm

Just to correct that last post a little, the original glow plug module was 56044671AA. This was superseded a few years ago by 56044671AC. Both of these are for 7 volt plugs. The new one for 5 volt plugs is 68090431AA, however, no one seems to have this one, so apparently, the older 7volt module will work for some folks who have had the 5volt plugs and flash installed. It didn't work well for me however and caused me to burn up my starter which is now on national back order until February.

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:07 pm

Just to help everyone on this a little...

56044671AA was the P/N used for the original ceramic kit of equipment for 05/06 model years.

56044671AC should be the P/N used for the 2007MY KJ, which came with metallic glow plugs as standard.
The 68090431AA is a new GCU which supercedes the 56044671AC, since it's not anymore in production.
The 4671AC and the 0431AA are functionally equivalent, so if you have either one you should not be affected.

Also, during the pre-glow phase it is correct that you should see 'battery voltage' (10-12V) at the glow plug, so no need to be worried.

The biggest issue that it sounds you're having (nursecosmo) is that the PCM flash hasn't been updated.
If you have the glow plugs cal for ceramic plugs in the ECU, but metallic GLP installed in the engine, the issue is that they won't pre-glow to the proper temperature (they will be cold) and then you will have poor start-ability. For the long run, you need the updated flash and the cold start will be fine; however, you can do multiple pre-glow cycles (even if you don't see the light, key on for 1-2 seconds, key off and then immediately key back on) and after 2-3 cycles it should start much better than cranking for 30 sec at a time.
I would ask the dealer to see the P/N of the ECU flash with the DRBIII and check that it's been updated.

Hope this helps some of you...

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:54 pm

MrMopar64 wrote:

Just to help everyone on this a little...

56044671AA was the P/N used for the original ceramic kit of equipment for 05/06 model years.

56044671AC should be the P/N used for the 2007MY KJ, which came with metallic glow plugs as standard.
The 68090431AA is a new GCU which supercedes the 56044671AC, since it's not anymore in production.
The 4671AC and the 0431AA are functionally equivalent, so if you have either one you should not be affected.

Also, during the pre-glow phase it is correct that you should see 'battery voltage' (10-12V) at the glow plug, so no need to be worried.

The biggest issue that it sounds you're having (nursecosmo) is that the PCM flash hasn't been updated.
If you have the glow plugs cal for ceramic plugs in the ECU, but metallic GLP installed in the engine, the issue is that they won't pre-glow to the proper temperature (they will be cold) and then you will have poor start-ability. For the long run, you need the updated flash and the cold start will be fine; however, you can do multiple pre-glow cycles (even if you don't see the light, key on for 1-2 seconds, key off and then immediately key back on) and after 2-3 cycles it should start much better than cranking for 30 sec at a time.
I would ask the dealer to see the P/N of the ECU flash with the DRBIII and check that it's been updated.

Hope this helps some of you...

Thank you for your comments MrMopar64, however your info is a little off. Both the 56044671AA(which the 05,06 CRDs shipped with) and the 56044671AC (introduced circa F-37 recall time) are both specified for 7volt ceramic glow plugs ONLY. This information is per the Chrysler parts fiche and per TSB 08-005-11. Both 56044671AC and 68090431AA are supposedly in production (according to the Mopar specifying department). 56044671AC is sold only for vehicles with ceramic plugs and 68090431AA is supposed to only be for metallic plugs. The shipping boxes for the metallic spec units even have 68090431AA stamped on them but the part inside is the old unit.

My ECM has the latest flash as verified by my Innova code scanner which is 68090471AA, If it had the old 7 volt logic as you suggest, it would do the opposite of what you described. It would cause the plugs to run hotter than specified(7V>5V) and starting would be a cinch.

I've tried giving the GP's extra time to heat up and it seems to make a slight difference if I wait at least ten seconds to start but I haven't tried the multiple on/off trick you mentioned, hopefully it will make starting easier.

It may be that all of the various incarnations of the GPM work exactly the same for translating the PWM signal from the ECU into current to the plug and the difference lyes in the how they read resistance to indicate a bad GP. I don't know the answer to this and no one can give me a definitive answer. It isn't in any Bosch manual I can find. Perhaps when I finally get my new starter all my troubles will go away.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:06 am

MrMopar64 wrote:

The 4671AC and the 0431AA are functionally equivalent, so if you have either one you should not be affected.

We had guessed this much. Thank you for the clarification (and honesty).

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:42 pm

well with a new starter it fired off this morning. It seems to spin 2x faster than the old one did, funny how I didn't notice how weak it was getting because it happened so gradually. With the 5V plugs it still doesn't fire off as quickly as it did with the 7V ones but at least I don't have to crank for 10-20 seconds or more for it to fire. Now it takes ~1-2 seconds to fire off.

Thank you all for your excellent suggestions and thank you MrMopar64 for the module info, you appear to be correct about the different part numbers being functionally equivalent regardless of what the stated specifications by Chrysler and Mopar are. Sorry that I doubted you.

crdjon · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:48 am

whosthedaddy07 wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

I made an hour round trip to the dealer today when I got out of work so I could raise a ruckus. The service manager told me when I got there however that they had another GPM coming in tomorrow from out east by UPS and it is supposed to be the right one. This will be the fourth GPM which they have ordered and I have serious doubts that it is the right one and let them know that I'll be expecting to get my money for the kit refunded if it isn't. Now that we are getting into some true cold weather up here, I have to have a functioning vehicle. I'll probably have to get Keith to install one of his tunes and go back to 7 volts. I'm willing to chance a shorter GP lifespan and have positive ignition in cold weather. If the dealer wants their 5V plugs back in order to give me a refund on the kit, I'll have to come up with some more 7V ones.

What is the word on Etechno availability here in the states?

Can you let us now about the module if its the right one so i can get onto my dealer and kick a fuss up, are these Etechno a new brand of plug, like to now more about and what people think they 7v ?

Just ordered some Etecno GX3123 glowplugs, Jeep gave me a refund for the 5v kit as they couldn't get a module till earliest after Xmas hopefully these will do the job :JEEPIN:

I have a set of original vm motori plugs here not used, got them while I waited for etecno to build the replacement 5volt glow plugs for me, original vm plugs run at the higher voltages u r mentioning. you could probably just put these in rather than all of this other stuff you are doing. It would wicker and cheaper by the sounds of it......

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:00 pm

So, I left it unplugged overnight on Wednesday night for testing with temps dropping to -17F and -30 wind chill. Thursday morning I triggered the GPs three times before engaging the starter. It barely bumped along on one cylinder for ~20 seconds while I kept the starter engaged, then it fired on two and finally three before it could power itself. Once it fired on all four, it ran fine but man oh man, you've never seen such smoke.

These 5 volt plugs totally SUCK !!!

If you are considering having them installed, Don't.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:29 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

So, I left it unplugged overnight on Wednesday night for testing with temps dropping to -17F and -30 wind chill. Thursday morning I triggered the GPs three times before engaging the starter. It barely bumped along on one cylinder for ~20 seconds while I kept the starter engaged, then it fired on two and finally three before it could power itself. Once it fired on all four, it ran fine but man oh man, you've never seen such smoke.

These 5 volt plugs totally SUCK !!!

If you are considering having them installed, Don't.

Yikes! I sure as heck won't do the update to the new style plugs if this is true. I'll go with the 7 volt drop in replacements once they are easier to get. Luckily, I don't need them yet. It was -5ºF here this AM, and though I had it plugged in last night, it started like it sat for 5 minutes, and ran like it too. :pepper:

crdjon · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:31 am

nursecosmo wrote:

So, I left it unplugged overnight on Wednesday night for testing with temps dropping to -17F and -30 wind chill. Thursday morning I triggered the GPs three times before engaging the starter. It barely bumped along on one cylinder for ~20 seconds while I kept the starter engaged, then it fired on two and finally three before it could power itself. Once it fired on all four, it ran fine but man oh man, you've never seen such smoke.

These 5 volt plugs totally SUCK !!!

If you are considering having them installed, Don't.

THe etechno plugs are fine, im still running the prototypes I had designd and built for us. Not bosch and all working fine.

Get about 4 of em for the single dealership price. And are more robust in design.

Good luck.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:03 pm

Granted that I haven't yet had my CRD in weather even CLOSE to having a minus sign near it... The Etechno prototypes that I'm running have been great to me so far.

I haven't noticed any change in starting performance at all with them. What I have noticed is that since my Mr Gasket pump broke (physical damage, not pump failure) the CRD has grumbled about starting after sitting for 8 hours +. It will crank for as much as 4-5 seconds before firing, where with the pump installed... Turn the key and it seemed like it wanted to fire almost before the first full revolution. That had been degrading over time up to the removal of the pump, so I'm not certain exactly what was going on.

Based on my TDI Jetta however... Fuel supply or glow plugs aren't the answer, it might be the pump. Anyone know the lifespan of a CP3 or if there is a service interval? When I had the VE pump on the Jetta serviced by a Bosch injector shop, they rebuilt it and basically "blueprinted" the pump for me... The Jetta was a freakin ROCKET after that. Oh, and it also started almost by looking at it sideways. No high pressure, no Vroom, no matter WHAT your glow plugs are doing.

crdjon · **Posted:** Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:35 am

geordi wrote:

Granted that I haven't yet had my CRD in weather even CLOSE to having a minus sign near it... The Etechno prototypes that I'm running have been great to me so far.

I haven't noticed any change in starting performance at all with them. What I have noticed is that since my Mr Gasket pump broke (physical damage, not pump failure) the CRD has grumbled about starting after sitting for 8 hours +. It will crank for as much as 4-5 seconds before firing, where with the pump installed... Turn the key and it seemed like it wanted to fire almost before the first full revolution. That had been degrading over time up to the removal of the pump, so I'm not certain exactly what was going on.

Based on my TDI Jetta however... Fuel supply or glow plugs aren't the answer, it might be the pump. Anyone know the lifespan of a CP3 or if there is a service interval? When I had the VE pump on the Jetta serviced by a Bosch injector shop, they rebuilt it and basically "blueprinted" the pump for me... The Jetta was a freakin ROCKET after that. Oh, and it also started almost by looking at it sideways. No high pressure, no Vroom, no matter WHAT your glow plugs are doing.

Definitely a message in that, we do have farely high compression, higher than the newer models I believe.

The rail pressure is supposed to be high too, nice atomisation of the diesel and fires more easily, just doesnt splat everything with squirt of liquid diesel.

Gassified diesel ......

Though it might difficult on FROZEN diesel.....

whosthedaddy07 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:23 am

MrMopar64 wrote:

Just to help everyone on this a little...

56044671AA was the P/N used for the original ceramic kit of equipment for 05/06 model years.

56044671AC should be the P/N used for the 2007MY KJ, which came with metallic glow plugs as standard.
The 68090431AA is a new GCU which supercedes the 56044671AC, since it's not anymore in production.
The 4671AC and the 0431AA are functionally equivalent, so if you have either one you should not be affected.

Also, during the pre-glow phase it is correct that you should see 'battery voltage' (10-12V) at the glow plug, so no need to be worried.

The biggest issue that it sounds you're having (nursecosmo) is that the PCM flash hasn't been updated.
If you have the glow plugs cal for ceramic plugs in the ECU, but metallic GLP installed in the engine, the issue is that they won't pre-glow to the proper temperature (they will be cold) and then you will have poor start-ability. For the long run, you need the updated flash and the cold start will be fine; however, you can do multiple pre-glow cycles (even if you don't see the light, key on for 1-2 seconds, key off and then immediately key back on) and after 2-3 cycles it should start much better than cranking for 30 sec at a time.
I would ask the dealer to see the P/N of the ECU flash with the DRBIII and check that it's been updated.

Hope this helps some of you...

Hi MrMopar64
Just read your post and just wondering ive had a set of the new Etechno1 GX3123 7v plugs fitted , the thing is if i leave jeep in garage now starts first time , and if i leave out side -8 at the moment it starts up after 2 or 3 cranks but tick over seem low as if there not enough heat off the plugs give it a good couple of revs sort it , so im wondering now is, do you think it would need the flash for the metal plugs but they do quote just drop in plugs or put the later glowplug module in 56044671AC as mines a 2005 2.8crd
Thanks

rzerbi · **Joined:** Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:20 am **Posts:** 1

Hi, I own a Liberty Diesel 2006 I´ve been reading de post, and I am a little confuse.

I need to change de Module 56044671AA because it´s not working any more, as it´s said in this post it was replaced by 56044671AC. It means it´s the same part with only a different numer part or I will need to change anything else?

Becasuse I haven´t been able to find 56044671AA

Thanks for your help

Rodrigo

crdjon · **Posted:** Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:48 am

I got the first none ceramic glow plugs built in italy for our 2.8 crd 2 or more years ago now, i beta tested them in my 2007 crd without any software or hardware changes. these have been made available through the appropriate web site.

It took a little bit of discussion with the techs but I got the prototypes for free. you get to buy them at a vastly cheaper price than those jumped up ceramics that seem to have bee causing failures prematurely.

somewhere on lost jeeps is the thread about it.

Ive been using mine for at least 2 years now and they have lasted longer than the ones I bought with the vehicle, still, thats a true statement for many things with this product.

Im traveling around the world at the moment so wont spend any more time on this till later this year.

Just to say that the metallics from the earlier versions as supplied by vm motori in my case were not the correct voltage to use a replacement in my 2007 crd, they dont heat, the redesigned ones do.

by the way, if you have the red ceramics have a good look at it, not only does have the part number but has the voltage on it too, this was used for the metallic replacement build. Somewhere around 4 to 5 volts from memory, I believe the etchno site thats mentioned previously is the outlet for the plugs I got built.

Have fun.

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:14 am

My Jeep is having problems starting in this cold New England weather of -10F USA.

13.3v on battery, the engine turns fine but doesn't fire.

6 months old OEM metal Glow plugs with the Glow plug control module 56044671AC.

Fuel supply is fine and no air in the lines.

It has been starting great when it's plugged in and the temps are above the teens.

Last night I failed to plug it in and this morning it just didn't start, the starter was turning with lots of energy.

I am thinking that my glow plug controller needs to be replaced to latest revision of 68090431aa, this is what Chrysler is saying the issue to be.

I know many are saying that it doesn't matter what controller is installed and that the ECU controls it....... but right now nothing is working.

Mr. Mopar stated that there is s difference in the controller even though the Bosch part numbers are the same.

The condition is that when the weather is below the freezing mark and the engine heater has not been plugged in, the CRD doesn't start.

Is anyone experiencing these same conditions with the OEM metal GP and the 68090431aa GP controller?

jschmidty1 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:05 am **Posts:** 6

Has anyone been able to come up with 68090431AA? I've gotten 2 sharpied out units and have had no luck finding the correct part number. My 5v plugs are not doing me any favors this winter.

Chrysler Subterfuge?

Who is online