LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Chrysler Subterfuge?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63799		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  nursecosmo [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Chrysler Subterfuge?
Ok, so I threw a code for a bad glow plug module a couple of months ago. I ordered a new module and replaced it myself. The PN was 56044671AC for ceramic plugs. As soon as I replaced it I got a couple of new codes for bad GPs (P1262, P1263). I knew that the GP upgrade was required and made an appointment to have it done at the dealer. TSB 08-005-11 was done with the ECM re-flash and the whole nine yards. When trying to start it the next morning it was a little hard to start. It threw another P1262 code. I cleared it and waited till the next morning, it did it again and I cleared it again. I checked continuity and all 4 new plugs tested fine. I noticed however that the PN on the GP module was the same as the prior one. I foolishly made another appointment with the dealer so that they could check the voltage and connections etc, as I did not think that I had the time to do it myself. I called back in the afternoon and the service manager told me that the GPs were getting 10 volts which dropped down to 5 volts but that it still wasn't starting right and it and it will now not trip a code. They had called Chrysler and the next step was to check the "low side fuel pressure" after sitting overnight. I explained that This would be a fruitless endeavor because I have a lift pump installed to correct the DCX bean counting nincompoopery and that was the first thing I checked. Also any mechanic who wasn't just a parts changer would know that an air leak would not disappear when the block heater is plugged in overnight. I instructed him to wait until morning so I could do some research here on the forum. I found the correct GPM part number should be 68090431AA according to the TSB however they had installed another 56044671AC which is the correct one for ceramic plugs as per the manual.

I asked them to order the correct one which came in yesterday. This morning I tried to start it after sitting overnight @29F. No joy. I looked at the "new" GPM and it has had the part number blacked out with a magic marker but the number can still be made out. It is the same old 56044671AC. My volt meter reads ~7 volts for less than a second (My multimeter doesn't have a setting for square wave RMS versus straight DC).

Has anyone been able to determine what the difference is between the 3 different glow plug modules? Apparently the 1st gen PN which shipped from the factory was 56044671AA. The updated ceramic one released around F-37 time was 56044671AC and the latest version released for metallic glow plugs in the TSB 08-005-11 is 68090431AA.
Author:  geordi [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
The difference is that if these idiots installed the wrong GP module for a higher voltage, and that the plugs were seeing 10v EVER... They are most likely destroyed. This is the problem with the new plugs - They are 5v not 7v, and it sounds like they didn't do the flash properly either, or the meters are all wrong.

Something is obviously incorrect here, but no part should have its number "blacked out" with a sharpie. That is something that your division rep needs to know about, that is decidedly fishy.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
Bump. Has anyone else had a similar problem?
Author:  Squeeto [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
These are the parts I know:
New:
_ Kit - 68090434AA
__ control unit - 68090431AA (Bosch 0 281 003 034)
__ plug - 68090430AA

Old:
__ control unit - 56044671AA (Bosch 0 281 003 034)
__ plug- 05142577AA

56044671AC is new info to me. What is the Bosch #?
I'd love to know the difference between the controllers as well.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
They are still looking into the part number issue and hopefully I will get an answer back by tomorrow. The parts guy who has been helping me out is pretty good but had to send the question up to the regional supply department. I do not have a lot of faith that I will get an answer I like however, as the organization is not known for being especially competent when it comes to suppling the correct parts for the CRD. Perhaps I will get them to install some 7V Etechno plugs and GDE flash because they cannot go backwards with the STAR re-flash.

Hey, I can try right?
Author:  Squeeto [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
If you are getting a GDE flash (I don't see that you have yet from your bio) ask Keith what he recommends (5 or 7 volt) and let him flash it. Just make sure the dealer lets you keep the correct module.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
We are still waiting on the Specifying department to locate the correct unit. Could someone else who has gotten the metallic update done by Jeep look and see which module they have? If they have the PN# 56044671AC is the Jeep having any trouble starting when cold? Who has a PN 68090434AA Glow Plug Module?
Author:  nursecosmo [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
I got word back today from my parts guy at my local Jeep dealer. He says that the word from the Chrysler specifying department is that there are no PN 68090434AA Glow Plug Modules (the correct one specified in TSB 08-005-11) anywhere in the country. They contacted all warehouses and checked all dealer stock and there are none of the correct metallic glow plug modules available. Corporate put an order through to the manufacturer but has no idea when they will be available. In the meantime I have to crank and crank just to get the poor jeep started unless it is plugged in. I will call Chrysler tomorrow and try to get a refund on the 5V gp install but I don't have high hopes. My next move will probably Have Keith At GDE Flash me back to the 7 volt specs and hope that the GP life isn't terribly shortened by over powering them. At least I'll not have any trouble getting it to fire @-40 degrees.

Side note: It is down to 20 degrees this evening and the Jeep has been unplugged all day. I checked voltage on the plugs and it fed 10 volts to the plugs for less than a second, then dropped to 3 volts for about a minute while idling. The funny thing is that if the engine is revved to 1200 RPM or greater, the voltage climbs to 5 volts. I have a Die Hard P-1 battery less than a year old and it tests perfectly so I know that it's not a current supply issue.
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
I may be terribly wrong but the kit (68090434AA - 4 plugs + module) appears to be readily available at most any on-line dealer; now I will admit that's the kit with 4 5v glow plugs and the module not just the module.

Me - I'm holding out for the 7v drop in Etecno1 replacements.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
papaindigo wrote:
I may be terribly wrong but the kit (68090434AA - 4 plugs + module) appears to be readily available at most any on-line dealer; now I will admit that's the kit with 4 5v glow plugs and the module not just the module.

Me - I'm holding out for the 7v drop in Etecno1 replacements.


You are right that there are several hundred kits available but the GPM in each of them has the part number 56044671AC which is the the old ceramic unit even though the box it comes in has the correct part number 68090431AA. Some of them have the part number blacked out but you can still read the number through the sharpie scribbles.
Author:  papaindigo [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
Wonderful, 1 more reason to go Italian.
Author:  Squeeto [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
nursecosmo wrote:
papaindigo wrote:
I may be terribly wrong but the kit (68090434AA - 4 plugs + module) appears to be readily available at most any on-line dealer; now I will admit that's the kit with 4 5v glow plugs and the module not just the module.

Me - I'm holding out for the 7v drop in Etecno1 replacements.


You are right that there are several hundred kits available but the GPM in each of them has the part number 56044671AC which is the the old ceramic unit even though the box it comes in has the correct part number 68090431AA. Some of them have the part number blacked out but you can still read the number through the sharpie scribbles.


We long ago complained that the Bosch numbers are the same.
BTW, I have an '06 with a 56044671AA part number. Not sure when the 56044671AC version appeared.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
They shipped from the factory with 56044671AA. Around the time of the F-37 recall the 56044671AC appeared. I've followed the long thread but no one ever did any definitive testing on the difference between the old and new units.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57915&start=60

I wish that I hadn't thrown away my old one so I could do some of my own testing.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
I spoke with Chrysler today and as expected, they will not cover it. They say that the TSB was issued by Chrysler with the correct part number specified but that the kits are put together by Mopar, which is a separate company from Chrysler. Mopar, who supplies the part screwed up by sending out the wrong part and the dealer screwed up by installing the thing and not checking that it was actually the right part number(twice). This morning, the temperature was 8 degrees F and I left it unplugged overnight for testing. It cranked for a LONG time before it fired on one cylinder then two and finally all four jugs (At least 30 seconds, thanks die Hard P-1).
Author:  Squeeto [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
Okay, you do have the latest flash, plugs and the only available controller. This system is working for others so you have another issue then?

You should change the title for this thread from "Crysler Subterfuge?" to "I installed the latest glow plug update and trouble ..."; you would get a lot more help.
Author:  retmil46 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
From what you described, sounds as if the dealer screwed up the reflash, and the ECM is still commanding the GPM to delver 7 volts as if you had a set of ceramics installed.

Unfortunately, that probably means the 5 volt GP's are fried by now.

My best guess is that they need to do the reflash again CORRECTLY, and install another set of 5 volt GP's to get it working.

My understanding is that the GPM is nothing more than an electronic PWM relay that feeds the GP's whatever voltage the ECM commands it to. That's why you have the sharpied-out PN on the controller - it's the same bloody controller, just a different PN globbed on it for being included in the TSB kit.
Author:  whosthedaddy07 [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
nursecosmo wrote:
Ok, so I threw a code for a bad glow plug module a couple of months ago. I ordered a new module and replaced it myself. The PN was 56044671AC for ceramic plugs. As soon as I replaced it I got a couple of new codes for bad GPs (P1262, P1263). I knew that the GP upgrade was required and made an appointment to have it done at the dealer. TSB 08-005-11 was done with the ECM re-flash and the whole nine yards. When trying to start it the next morning it was a little hard to start. It threw another P1262 code. I cleared it and waited till the next morning, it did it again and I cleared it again. I checked continuity and all 4 new plugs tested fine. I noticed however that the PN on the GP module was the same as the prior one. I foolishly made another appointment with the dealer so that they could check the voltage and connections etc, as I did not think that I had the time to do it myself. I called back in the afternoon and the service manager told me that the GPs were getting 10 volts which dropped down to 5 volts but that it still wasn't starting right and it and it will now not trip a code. They had called Chrysler and the next step was to check the "low side fuel pressure" after sitting overnight. I explained that This would be a fruitless endeavor because I have a lift pump installed to correct the DCX bean counting nincompoopery and that was the first thing I checked. Also any mechanic who wasn't just a parts changer would know that an air leak would not disappear when the block heater is plugged in overnight. I instructed him to wait until morning so I could do some research here on the forum. I found the correct GPM part number should be 68090431AA according to the TSB however they had installed another 56044671AC which is the correct one for ceramic plugs as per the manual.

I asked them to order the correct one which came in yesterday. This morning I tried to start it after sitting overnight @29F. No joy. I looked at the "new" GPM and it has had the part number blacked out with a magic marker but the number can still be made out. It is the same old 56044671AC. My volt meter reads ~7 volts for less than a second (My multimeter doesn't have a setting for square wave RMS versus straight DC).

Has anyone been able to determine what the difference is between the 3 different glow plug modules? Apparently the 1st gen PN which shipped from the factory was 56044671AA. The updated ceramic one released around F-37 time was 56044671AC and the latest version released for metallic glow plugs in the TSB 08-005-11 is 68090431AA.



nursecosmo have you had any joy off the dealer yet im from the UK and having exactly word for word the same problem with this 5v kit even down to blacked out part number the only difference is my dealer not convinced theres a tsb flash for it ive got Jeep uk (oh FIAT) sorting the dealer out now hopefully i can get a answer soon as jeeps as its getting harder to start now were haveing frosts....
Author:  nursecosmo [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
I made an hour round trip to the dealer today when I got out of work so I could raise a ruckus. The service manager told me when I got there however that they had another GPM coming in tomorrow from out east by UPS and it is supposed to be the right one. This will be the fourth GPM which they have ordered and I have serious doubts that it is the right one and let them know that I'll be expecting to get my money for the kit refunded if it isn't. Now that we are getting into some true cold weather up here, I have to have a functioning vehicle. I'll probably have to get Keith to install one of his tunes and go back to 7 volts. I'm willing to chance a shorter GP lifespan and have positive ignition in cold weather. If the dealer wants their 5V plugs back in order to give me a refund on the kit, I'll have to come up with some more 7V ones.

What is the word on Etechno availability here in the states?
Author:  whosthedaddy07 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
nursecosmo wrote:
I made an hour round trip to the dealer today when I got out of work so I could raise a ruckus. The service manager told me when I got there however that they had another GPM coming in tomorrow from out east by UPS and it is supposed to be the right one. This will be the fourth GPM which they have ordered and I have serious doubts that it is the right one and let them know that I'll be expecting to get my money for the kit refunded if it isn't. Now that we are getting into some true cold weather up here, I have to have a functioning vehicle. I'll probably have to get Keith to install one of his tunes and go back to 7 volts. I'm willing to chance a shorter GP lifespan and have positive ignition in cold weather. If the dealer wants their 5V plugs back in order to give me a refund on the kit, I'll have to come up with some more 7V ones.

What is the word on Etechno availability here in the states?


Can you let us now about the module if its the right one so i can get onto my dealer and kick a fuss up, are these Etechno a new brand of plug, like to now more about and what people think they 7v ?
Author:  whosthedaddy07 [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crysler Subterfuge?
whosthedaddy07 wrote:
nursecosmo wrote:
I made an hour round trip to the dealer today when I got out of work so I could raise a ruckus. The service manager told me when I got there however that they had another GPM coming in tomorrow from out east by UPS and it is supposed to be the right one. This will be the fourth GPM which they have ordered and I have serious doubts that it is the right one and let them know that I'll be expecting to get my money for the kit refunded if it isn't. Now that we are getting into some true cold weather up here, I have to have a functioning vehicle. I'll probably have to get Keith to install one of his tunes and go back to 7 volts. I'm willing to chance a shorter GP lifespan and have positive ignition in cold weather. If the dealer wants their 5V plugs back in order to give me a refund on the kit, I'll have to come up with some more 7V ones.

What is the word on Etechno availability here in the states?


Can you let us now about the module if its the right one so i can get onto my dealer and kick a fuss up, are these Etechno a new brand of plug, like to now more about and what people think they 7v ?


Just ordered some Etecno GX3123 glowplugs, Jeep gave me a refund for the 5v kit as they couldn't get a module till earliest after Xmas hopefully these will do the job :JEEPIN:
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/