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Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63958		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  lurch519 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Does anyone have "tricks" for increased winter fuel mileage? Arizona does not get THAT cold, but I have blocked off airfolw to about half of the radiator and about 1/3 covering of the charge air intercooler and have seen better mileage in my Cummins powered Dodge. Temps were about 75 daytime and 50 at night. Has anyone tried a cold weather front or good old fashioned cardboard on thier CRD ? Without the cardboard on my truck, the coolant temp will not even get close to normal operating temp after 20 miles of highway driving. This is good for about one to 1.5 mpg in my case.
Author:  Granahan378 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
In Colorado i block the radiator on my dodge cummins 100% with cardboard to help with heat and it does help with MPG but the colder the intercooler the better your MPG will be so if you can leave the intercooler open do it. I put cardboard inbetween the liberty's radiator and electric fan but the clearance is to little and the fan blades will hit the cardboard. I didnt really see any advantage either becuase the liberty has that viscous heater which warms the coolant which does the same as blocking the rad to increase heat. Its a toss up and i didnt see the return.
Author:  lurch519 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Yep, the CRD is definately a differant animal than my Dodge. I was wondering if the blocking of airflow would help 'cause I had read on another site that the lower intake air temp would cause the engine to run with more fuel (richer mixture) and although that would get a couple of extra HP, the fuel mileage would suffer a bit.
Author:  xtriggerman [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
I did read on the TDR once that a guy got about 1.5 mpg better in the winter just by using engine bay air rather than OEM out side air.
Author:  naturist [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
lurch519 wrote:
Does anyone have "tricks" for increased winter fuel mileage? Arizona does not get THAT cold, but I have blocked off airfolw to about half of the radiator and about 1/3 covering of the charge air intercooler and have seen better mileage in my Cummins powered Dodge. Temps were about 75 daytime and 50 at night. Has anyone tried a cold weather front or good old fashioned cardboard on thier CRD ? Without the cardboard on my truck, the coolant temp will not even get close to normal operating temp after 20 miles of highway driving. This is good for about one to 1.5 mpg in my case.



Sounds to me like your thermostat is dead. My CRD reaches operating temperature within 2-3 miles at highway speeds even when temperatures are in the 30s.
Author:  DynoPax [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Quick and easy tricks to apply, courtesy of GDE: Remove air filter box air duct, blocking exterior side; remove mechanical fan and clutch; block front grill, partially or complete. Idea is to get warmer air through the intake and engine...
Author:  NJCRD [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
The only slot on my grill that's open is the slot for the air intake. Been great, gives me a ram air effect. Better mpg too.
Author:  PermanentGrin [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Granahan378 wrote:
In Colorado i block the radiator on my dodge cummins 100% with cardboard to help with heat and it does help with MPG but the colder the intercooler the better your MPG will be so if you can leave the intercooler open do it. I put cardboard inbetween the liberty's radiator and electric fan but the clearance is to little and the fan blades will hit the cardboard. I didnt really see any advantage either becuase the liberty has that viscous heater which warms the coolant which does the same as blocking the rad to increase heat. Its a toss up and i didnt see the return.


That's only true in engines at operating temperature. I don't know the exact figures, but when you're dealing with a cold engine and a cold air-fuel mixture, a diesel engine is not running at peak efficiency, thus the richer fuel mixture needed to keep it running. The whole idea behind an intercooler is to keep the air temperature from getting HOT going into the engine. This is done to take advantage of the volumetric efficiency of cooler air. The more air in the chamber, the more oxygen. More oxygen in the air-fuel mixture, the hotter the fire, to a point. HOWEVER, putting super-cold air into a cold engine is a HUGE problem with diesels. The following sums it up better than I can.

"Diesel engines perform significantly better at a steady state with regards to temperature. Typically, a colder intake air charge will allow the engine to produce more power thereby providing for better operating conditions. However, it is possible for a significantly lower intake air temperature to decrease combustion temperatures, producing an adverse effect. The cold air actually affects engine operation in several ways. The first is in the combustion process itself. A diesel engine uses no external source of heat for ignition and must therefore rely on the heat of the reactants (fuel and air) to aid in the combustion process. Cold incoming air and cold fuel cause the combustion temperature to be even further reduced in the idling engine resulting in increased carbon and tar buildup. Cold air also causes fuel detonation instead of deflagration (explosion instead of burning) resulting in burnt pistons. This phenomenon, at its most severe, can cause a diesel running at low speed to fail to idle due to its inability to maintain combustion temperature." - By: Michael Kelley and Jeremy Coatsworth, Marine Design Center, US Army Corps of Engineers (COLD WEATHER PROBLEMS OF DIESEL ENGINES) http://www.nap.usace.army.mil/mdc/newsl ... ne_wet.htm

IN A NUTSHELL, warming up the air by blocking off the engine compartment partially and using warmed compartment air is a good thing for a cold engine, especially in cold environments. Your inter/aftercooler will cool it sufficiently anyway at winter temps.
Author:  PermanentGrin [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
naturist wrote:
lurch519 wrote:
Does anyone have "tricks" for increased winter fuel mileage? Arizona does not get THAT cold, but I have blocked off airfolw to about half of the radiator and about 1/3 covering of the charge air intercooler and have seen better mileage in my Cummins powered Dodge. Temps were about 75 daytime and 50 at night. Has anyone tried a cold weather front or good old fashioned cardboard on thier CRD ? Without the cardboard on my truck, the coolant temp will not even get close to normal operating temp after 20 miles of highway driving. This is good for about one to 1.5 mpg in my case.



Sounds to me like your thermostat is dead. My CRD reaches operating temperature within 2-3 miles at highway speeds even when temperatures are in the 30s.


Actually, I doubt your engine is actually at operating temp in 2-3 miles. Your engine coolant temp might be in the operating range due to the viscous heater combined with your combustion heat, but I'd be curious to see how long it takes to actually get one of these up around 200 degrees engine oil temperature. My 09 Challenger has the EVIC that shows coolant temp, oil temp and oil pressure, and it takes about 10 miles to get the oil temp over 200 F. That's why the experts say you have to drive about 10 minutes minimum to get the moisture out of your engine oil if you do a bunch of short trips. I drive about 30 minutes every time the sun comes out in the winter to keep the moisture from building up in her.

My day drive to work is 30 minutes one way. Even with a winter front, driving 60 MPH, it doesn't get warm enough to where I feel it's a good idea to run the heater if it's under 30 F. I can do it about 5 minutes after I leave, but I can watch the needle drop enough to notice when I do, and I know that's killing MPGs. Tempted to put the electric heater in it. Not a problem in mild to warmer weather. KJ came from TX.

Oh, and note that I *believe* my t-stat is okay, because if I drop out of OD at 60, the engine will bring up the coolant temps almost into the straight-up range.
Author:  jlgail4309 [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Sam's CRD Noob Guide: I would read the whole thing it's great info the best I've seen


The MAP(Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor is the main sensor that governs ALL fuel injection, timing, boost control, etc. This is the main engine sensor, without it the ECU cannot correctly determine the injection event and the boost. This sensor needs to be kept clean. With a stock CRD the combination of oil overfill, stock CCV, and EGR will leave this sensor coated with a sooty oily mess in about 8k miles. When the sensor is dirty the CRD will experience decreased fuel economy, decreased power, increased turbo lag, worse drivability, hesitation etc. The sensor is also delicate and care needs to be taken when cleaning, the best solution is to do the modifications to cleanup the intake path. After nearly 50k miles of the ORM my MAP stays clean, really only needing to be cleaning every 50k miles or so.
Author:  Hoosier CRD [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Lurch,

Yeah, I tried the cardboard in front of the radiator. The results were mixed in retrospect. Had somebody call it a "Hillbilly Heater" It did look kinda shadetree. I installed an in-line thermostat (no housing) and mileage improved.

Question: Have you re-flashed your ECM with any of the offerings from Green Diesel Engineering? They work well to improve mileage.

I'm also looking at the TS MP-8 three-position performance chip. Believe it or not, adding fuel to a diesel can IMPROVE fuel mileage; unlike a gasoline fueled engine. Of course, there does reach a point of diminishing return. However, the TS chip keeps things in perspective.

Finally, are you using any fuel additives? I use a combination of Stanadyne Performance, about 5.5 ounces per tank, Stanadyne Lubricity, about 2.75 ounces per tank and finally add about .5 ounces per tank of Racor Biocide. It sounds like a chemistry experiment and it is. But it helps by up to a 10 percent increase in the fuel mileage department.

Aside from the Noob Guide stuff, make sure that the air pressure is up to 33PSI (cold) in your tires and that you have a good front-end alignment. Hope this helps.

FWIW

Hoosier CRD
Author:  woodtick [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
This may sound odd, but another way we lose MPG on our tractors is the brake hang up on the front calipers. The stupid little rubber sleeves on the slide pins (dumbest design I've ever seen with regard to braking) :dizzy: tend to hang the caliper up. I removed them from my last CRD and had much less rolling resistance. Unfortunately, I totaled it 2 days later (unrelated) before I could see any MPG improvement. :banghead: But I will be checking the new CRD and doing the same thing.
Author:  RJM [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Blend D1 and D2 or Bio as the weather permits.
Author:  naturist [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
There are only two "tricks" that should help at all: (1) make sure you have a working thermostat and (2) NEVER take a trip shorter than 30 minutes at highway speed.

If your engine does not warm up such that the temp guage is right at the first tick left of dead center within a few miles at highway speed, regardless of whether your block off the radiator, then your thermostat has died -- they are designed to fail OPEN.

Further, until the engine is fully warmed up, the viscous fluid heater is working (and sucking up fuel like a sponge) to warm the engine. Short trips will have it working ALL the time, and your mileage will drop like a rock. If the thermostat is not up to snuff, you wind up with the viscous heater working ALL the time, and that will really kill your mileage.

I've now put 145,000 miles on my 2005 CRD. Here in Virginia, overnight lows sometimes drop as low as -10˚F, but usually are in the low 20s. I have had occasion to drive it at -10, and have NEVER blocked off the radiator. Since my driveway empties onto US 460, I have about 5 miles at highway speeds before hitting any slowdowns, and my engine is easily fully warmed up within that 5 miles. Since it will not warm up at idle, if you have only city street speeds, it will take you longer to warm up under those conditions.

Winter diesel fuel is about 10% less energetic, so you will get 10% lower mileage in winter than summer, and there is nothing you can do about that. I've been getting about 24 mpg overall, and about 29 on road trips where the entire tank is AFTER it is fully warm. This compares to about 26 overall and about 34 on summer diesel.
Author:  littlebiggin [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Well I just got my CRD and was excited to see what my mileage would be. So far in town I'm only getting like 18.5mpg. And when I say in town I mean driving like 8 miles to work or 15 miles to the nearest Walmart. Of course I do live in the hills and my liberty is stock I'm just not sure what I should be getting. I did manage to go take a trip the other day and got almost 25 MPG out of it. These are hand calculated based on trip and gallons on fill up. My temp gauge typically stays right above a quarter. Temps here haven't been below freezing for the most part. Any input would be appreciated.
Author:  Hoosier CRD [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
littlebiggin wrote:
Well I just got my CRD and was excited to see what my mileage would be. So far in town I'm only getting like 18.5mpg. And when I say in town I mean driving like 8 miles to work or 15 miles to the nearest Walmart. Of course I do live in the hills and my liberty is stock I'm just not sure what I should be getting. I did manage to go take a trip the other day and got almost 25 MPG out of it. These are hand calculated based on trip and gallons on fill up. My temp gauge typically stays right above a quarter. Temps here haven't been below freezing for the most part. Any input would be appreciated.


First off, welcome to L.O.S.T. Jeeps. Secondly, welcome to the world of CRD Liberty owners here on the site.

The best thing that I offer you are these points:
1) Read Sam's Noob guide and act on that he talks about.
2) Cure the temperature issue by either installing a thermostat, i.e. an in-line (no housing needed) or the OE unit from Mopar/VM. The temp reading on your gauge indicates that you have an issue there (running too cold) and fuel mileage is suffering as a result. I installed an in-line and on a 25F day at 60 MPH, the temp gauge went right up to the half-way mark and stayed there.
3) Make sure that you tire pressure is 33PSI.

Hope these help.

FWIW

Hoosier CRD
Author:  littlebiggin [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Thanks! So after calling and finding out that I have to order the OEM thermostat from a dealer which costs $140 I kinda wanna do the inline thermostat. Before I do it though I would like some feedback on how effective it is and how reliable it is. Also does anyone have the part numbers so i can check prices on the inline thermostat? I looked in the tech section and didn't see any write ups on it. Are there any available? I'm still new to this diesel and this site so all input is appreciated. Also tire pressure is 40 should i lower?
Author:  papaindigo [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Check viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63264&hilit=thermostat+inline&start=60 and viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63587&p=715402&hilit=stant#p715402
Author:  WolverineFW [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
littlebiggin wrote:
Well I just got my CRD and was excited to see what my mileage would be. So far in town I'm only getting like 18.5mpg. And when I say in town I mean driving like 8 miles to work or 15 miles to the nearest Walmart. Of course I do live in the hills and my liberty is stock I'm just not sure what I should be getting.


When CRD was stock, I got about 19-20 MPG in situations where the trips were short with a lot of stop n go.
Author:  Hoosier CRD [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tricks for better winter fuel mileage
Littlebiggin,

40PSI will likely give you a bumpy/uncomfortable ride and wear out the center of your tires before the edges. Past that, what's not to like? :D

I don't know if there are any fuel mileage advantages past 33 PSI. Try this: Take a piece of chalk, mark a line across the thread on all four tires (parallel to the ground), drive down the driveway or road a small distance and look to see if it all goes away. That will for sure tell you if youhave all of the tread in contact with the pavement (the ideal pressure will do this)

Green Diesel Engineering is a great source for ECM re-programming. The full-torque Eco-Tune will help with mileage and performance. Hope this helps.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD
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