PS, Brake, Xfer Case or what?

CRDDude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:31 pm

Back at the beginning of December I drove my '05 CRD from Phoenix
up to Prescott for the annual Christmas tree lighting. It was cold that afternoon
and snow and ice on Hwy 69 into town so I put the vehicle into full time 4wd mode.
Worked fine drove safely into town, no problems. Parked at the hotel. Overnight temps
in the mid teens. The next day as I was driving out of town (back in 2wd mode) I heard this ticking or clinking noise coming from front driver side that would increase in freq with
increase in speed. On returning to Phx I noticed that when making hard right turn
into parking space that it seemed like steering was dragging. Checked PS fluid, topped it off
as it was on the cold level though engine was hot. Next day everything was
fine problem seems to have disappeared. So I just assumed PS fluid topoff had resolved it.

This was about three weeks ago. Yesterday the problem returned again after having vehicle in 4wd mode for a short time. Checked PS fluid level, fine. This time "dragging" feel occurs w either hard right or left turn. It almost feels as if something is causing resistance preventing front wheels from spinning when steering is all the way right or left. Any ideas what
might be causing this?

CRDDude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:53 pm

Hells bells. After sitting overnight, problem has gone away again. At least in 2wd mode.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:12 pm

I think you may need to take a really close look at the front axle/CV joints.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Are you getting wheel hop? It could be that your 4WD is not disengaging when you shift from "4 full-time" through "4 part-time" into 2WD. The handle in the cab of the Jeep drives a chain like a bike. If you shift too quickly through the gears, the chain will get stuck on 4WD Part Time. Try shifting into 4WD Part Time and leave it there for a few seconds (50 yards) let your foot off of the gas to sort of jiggle the transfer-case. Then shift all the way down...

That doesn't explain the noise though... Does it ever make it while in 2WD or is it only AFTER you shift out of 4WD? I would be concerned about the front axle boots unless this only does it AFTER or during the time your vehicle is intentionally or accidentally stuck in 4WD part time.

CRDDude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:14 pm

Papa Indigo, it will also make a "unhuh" sort of metal on rubber sound when going over a speed bump at low speed, from front passenger side, but I think the shock on that side is worn and needs replacement. This is occurs totally independent of the other issue. Have not replaced shocks since I purchased the vehicle at 36k mi and it is now at around 80k, I think it is about time.

Big Montana, I don't think it is "wheel hopping" at least from my understanding of the term but your suggesting the 4WD is not completely disengaging is interesting...when this occurs, would the mode indicator lights on the DB be displaying incorrectly? You might be right, I could just be shifting to quickly through the modes.

The noise and feeling of something preventing front wheels spinning freely in tight turns has occurred twice. Three weeks ago on Prescott to PHX return trip after I took it out of Full Time 4wd on my way back to Phoenix the morning after I had driven in the snow and left in in Fulltime mode when shutting down, and yesterday afternoon after I had it in 4wd (all three modes) briefly in a sandy parking lot at Rio Salado rifle range. It made the noise all the way back Phoenix from East Mesa and the shift lever was in 2wd the whole time.

It made the noise in 2wd and give that feeling of front wheels not spinning freely in turns after having been in 4wd, but if I then shut the vehicle down in 2wd and start it up the following morning in 2wd both the noise and the feeling of resistance, front wheels not spinning freely in turns are gone and I heard one single "clink" like a chain link rattling as I backed out of the parking space, other than that the noise was completely gone and the feeling of resistance to turn was gone as well.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:06 pm

The "unhuh" noise could be shocks but that's unlikely IMHO. I'd lean more toward noisey (what I'd call suspension creak) suspension "bushings" which of course could include shock bushing. Shocks in my experience generally don't make any noise to speak of and when they "fail" it's more a matter of insufficient internal hydraulic damping to hold the vehicle bounce under control which isn't much of an issue at low speed. Life of shocks varies a lot especially depending on how hard you push your vehicle on bad roads so to speak.

Sticking on the shift out of 4w is a possibility but I still lean toward external drive train like CV joints or the slip joint.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:45 pm

CRDDude wrote:

Papa Indigo, it will also make a "unhuh" sort of metal on rubber sound when going over a speed bump at low speed, from front passenger side, but I think the shock on that side is worn and needs replacement. This is occurs totally independent of the other issue. Have not replaced shocks since I purchased the vehicle at 36k mi and it is now at around 80k, I think it is about time.

I would say it's the bushings. I always know when it's getting cold out because my front end creaks due to the bushings. There is a way to grease them, but I've never tried. I think the rubber gets real cold and hard. I don't hear it at all in the summer.

CRDDude wrote:

Big Montana, I don't think it is "wheel hopping" at least from my understanding of the term but your suggesting the 4WD is not completely disengaging is interesting...when this occurs, would the mode indicator lights on the DB be displaying incorrectly?

The sensor for the light must be on the handle somewhere. It has no idea if the gears are lined up or not. I had this problem years ago when I had a flat and replaced it with a new tire and the unused spare. I effectively put bigger tires (thicker tread) on the rear axle than the front. From then on out, my Jeep would not shift past the 4WD Part Time. I used to do circle in dirt lots to break it free from 4WD. I took it to the dealer and tried to get them to fix my transfercase, and they insisted I needed matched tires. I thought that was crazy, but a year later when I replaced all four tires, my TC shifted smooth and quick. (do you have a new tire by the way?)

Check your CV joint boots like Papaindigo says, but then try to shift more slowly in the future to see if that helps. The clink noise could be the differential trying to let go as you turn.

CRDDude · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:15 pm

Drove this afternoon and it was fine as started in 2wd. After dropping off some clothes at the cleaners I shifted it to 4wd High then slowly to full time while moving about 5mph in the parking lot. It immediately started making the noises again. Drove it to an empty parking lot and slowly shifted it back down to 2wd. This time the noises stopped and the dragging feel during the turns was no longer there. I slowly shifted back into 4wd high and then full time again. This time I was crawling at just a few mph and would stop and put it in reverse for a few moments and then shift back into drive after each mode change. In full time 4wd I drove around a several block loop at speeds up to 45-50 mph. The noises were still there but not as noticeable except when I made a right hand turn after a stop, there was some real clinking going on then. I drove back to the parking lot and did the reverse. Slowly dropped it down to 4wd high and then 2wd. Again the noises went away after dropping back down into 2wd. I feel confident driving it in 2wd mode that nothing is being damaged but I'm going to have that chain and the transfer case inspected along with the CV joints/boots as Papa Indigo suggested.

By the way...rear tires are brand new BFG T/A All Terrain, front are same type tire but are worn 40k plus miles and due to be replaced shortly.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:43 pm

So even when the Jeep makes it to "4WD full time" you're hearing noise? I suspect there is something wrong with the four wheel drive system. It can't be the front axle shaft CV joints or it would do it all the time right? I don't think it can be the front differential either for the same reason. I'm not sure if the front shaft spins while in 2WD. Tonight while replacing my front drive shaft CV joint near the transfer case, I was able to spin the transfer case yoke but not the front axle yoke. That seems to indicate that the front shaft will spin with the front wheels but not under connected power with the transfer case.

It could be
1. The front drive shaft CV joints. I JUST replaced my front drive shaft CV joint (three hours ago) because I was getting vibration in 4WD. The boot went out two years ago and the joint finally went this season.
2. The transfer case. Perhaps there is damage. Those tires could be the issue. Like I said, I thought the dealer was trying to rip me off, but my front tires had about 40k miles and my rear tires ended up being new. It was a bear to shift into 4wd Full Time. When I got it there though, there was no noise. The slip yoke that allows us to have full time 4WD is supposed to take care of that. Yours could be broken.

You said that is sounds like the driver's side. The front drive shaft is on the drivers side. Check that inner boot and perhaps you'll get lucky and see a crack. If that's the case, don't let them tell you to buy the whole shaft for $380-450. There is now a kit for $170 to replace the whole head. I did it in an hour today.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Front end groan is undoubtedly the front sway bar bushings. You can add grease nipples and then easly re-lube periodically.

DOC

PS, Brake, Xfer Case or what?

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