Oil-Air Separator

kidjedi · **Posted:** Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:42 pm

Just finished removing and cleaning the CCV puck on both my CRD's. One was plugged solid with sludge. The other was completely clear. Neither had any sort of media filter inside.

It makes sense that the '05 had sludge (oil and soot) since I recently broke a rocker (and then replaced them all). The weird thing to me is that the performance didn't seem to suffer at all, even though there was apparently no air flowing through the CCV puck.

I was also surprised to find no filter media inside either puck. I was under the impression that there was some sort of "brillo" type media in there.

Just posting the info. for others who come looking.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:51 pm

If you have not added ProVents, you should!
It is a coalescing type filter and removes the oil liquids and only allows the vapors to be recycled back into the turbo inlet... :mrgreen:

They work very well!!! :wink:

Many on this forum have installed them.

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

This following observation / comment is not meant to take away from the Provent solution at all, but may help out those that have not installed one and are still utilizing the OEM separator. Forgive me if this is a repetition, but I could not find a reference to this particular subject by searching.
I recently acquired a new to me 2006 CRD. Initially performed all of the easy repairs / mods to give some piece of mind until the timing belt change was completed. This included new turbo and intercooler hoses. I noticed that the oil separator on the top of the cam cover was bleeding oil out around it. I installed a new one to speed up the maintenance process with the intent to inspect / clean the original later.
I am now into the timing belt and rocker change. When I removed the new hoses I was alarmed at the inordinate amount of oil carried over in a very short time. I have another CRD that doesn't put that much oil overboard in a 10000km oil change interval. Now that the cam box / intake manifold is off, I see there is actually a "loop seal" on the oil drain back passage from the separator. It is a piece of 8mm tubing bent 180 degrees fastened with a socket head cap screw. This was plugged with crap, preventing any separated oil from draining back into the engine. It was accumulating in the separator body and being carried over into the turbo inlet. With this kept clean, the oil carry over is reduced. I found an an obscure reference in the FSM to keep this port clean, however it does not mention that it is indeed a loop seal. I tried to clean it out by removing the separator and forcing a pipe cleaner through the port and loop seal. The pipe cleaner was not stiff enough to make it around the bend in the tubing. I was successful using a piece of thick weed whacker line to force it through the blockage and then continued with a pipe cleaner. Now, with the cam box removed, the loop seal can be removed and cleaned easily, but that is not practical for routine maintenance. For future, you may be able to remove the separator and blow the port clear with an air chuck if you have the correct shape. It is a bit difficult to get at from above with the separator removed.
Since the OEM unit is actually a form of cyclonic separator, the addition of cleaning the drain back passage completely during an oil change, may reduce some of the oil carry over, by allowing proper drainage. Hope this may help those who have not installed a Provent.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:49 pm

Thats good info to know! I believe that is the first I have heard of that about the PVC puck.... :roll:

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

Just to clarify my earlier post, the drain port and loop seal is actually located within the cam box / intake manifold casting, not the separator puck itself. All that can be seen from above when the puck is removed, is about a 4mm drain hole in the casting. This is what must be cleaned out. The whole passage, including the loop seal tube, is about 4" long, but you cannot see that unless the cam box is removed.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:11 am

mrhemi wrote:

Just to clarify my earlier post, the drain port and loop seal is actually located within the cam box / intake manifold casting, not the separator puck itself. All that can be seen from above when the puck is removed, is about a 4mm drain hole in the casting. This is what must be cleaned out. The whole passage, including the loop seal tube, is about 4" long, but you cannot see that unless the cam box is removed.

Would it be safe for members to remove the CCV Puck and clean out the drain hole and passage without removing the intake/cam cover? Maybe wash it out with a very short burst of air or brake cleaner followed up with brake cleaner soaked pipe cleaner? :roll:

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

Absolutely, I intend to make that part of the oil change procedure in the future. It may be a bit difficult to just place an air chuck in there to cover the drain hole, but you could come up with something that will work. The one advantage to using a pipe cleaner or piece of weed whacker line is you know that you have gotten completely through the passage if you have 4"-5" inserted.

k9adv · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:56 am

mrhemi wrote:

This following observation / comment is not meant to take away from the Provent solution at all, but may help out those that have not installed one and are still utilizing the OEM separator. Forgive me if this is a repetition, but I could not find a reference to this particular subject by searching.
I recently acquired a new to me 2006 CRD. Initially performed all of the easy repairs / mods to give some piece of mind until the timing belt change was completed. This included new turbo and intercooler hoses. I noticed that the oil separator on the top of the cam cover was bleeding oil out around it. I installed a new one to speed up the maintenance process with the intent to inspect / clean the original later.
I am now into the timing belt and rocker change. When I removed the new hoses I was alarmed at the inordinate amount of oil carried over in a very short time. I have another CRD that doesn't put that much oil overboard in a 10000km oil change interval. Now that the cam box / intake manifold is off, I see there is actually a "loop seal" on the oil drain back passage from the separator. It is a piece of 8mm tubing bent 180 degrees fastened with a socket head cap screw. This was plugged with crap, preventing any separated oil from draining back into the engine. It was accumulating in the separator body and being carried over into the turbo inlet. With this kept clean, the oil carry over is reduced. I found an an obscure reference in the FSM to keep this port clean, however it does not mention that it is indeed a loop seal. I tried to clean it out by removing the separator and forcing a pipe cleaner through the port and loop seal. The pipe cleaner was not stiff enough to make it around the bend in the tubing. I was successful using a piece of thick weed whacker line to force it through the blockage and then continued with a pipe cleaner. Now, with the cam box removed, the loop seal can be removed and cleaned easily, but that is not practical for routine maintenance. For future, you may be able to remove the separator and blow the port clear with an air chuck if you have the correct shape. It is a bit difficult to get at from above with the separator removed.
Since the OEM unit is actually a form of cyclonic separator, the addition of cleaning the drain back passage completely during an oil change, may reduce some of the oil carry over, by allowing proper drainage. Hope this may help those who have not installed a Provent.

this is very good to know. which direction is the 4mm hole visible from? does it head forward , back, or?

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

It is toward the front (of the vehicle) of the opening for the ccv puck. Difficult to see when leaning over the radiator. It heads down into the cam cover.

k9adv · **Posted:** Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:01 pm

mrhemi wrote:

It is toward the front (of the vehicle) of the opening for the ccv puck. Difficult to see when leaning over the radiator. It heads down into the cam cover.

thanks! I will add cleaning this to my maintenance plan.

BoarX · **Joined:** Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm **Posts:** 127

It would be interesting to see, how efficient is this contraption compared to Provent. If the guy decided to add a drain to an intercooler, I am suspicious. Just my 2c.
A.

mrhemi · **Joined:** Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:46 am **Posts:** 180

Now that I keep the loop seal cleaned out on my CRD's I am experiencing much reduced oil carry over. I might have to add a liter of oil during the 10000km change interval, but not always. A full throttle acceleration does not produce the exhaust plume it once did, until the intercooler clears.

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

Is this loop drain part of the CCV puck or do you need to remove the entire CCV unit to find the drain?

TKB4 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:43 pm

Thanks to MRHEMI good work I never knew this drain tube was there either and will make it part of my regular maintenance routine. I am going to change out a head soon and install ARP s and will look at the intake cover closer when I have it off also.

Maybe somehow this should be added to the Noob guide or another appropriate location?

BTW apparently you remove the ccv puck and the tube is in the actual intake cover under the puck about 4mm diameter and goes toward front of engine I haven't looked yet.

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

I assume there is a hole in the drain CCV puck that lines up with this tube?

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:56 pm

Since this topic is back open, I am considering putting a loose stainless steel pad in the puck.
I guess that this is absent on the oem due to the chance of it freezing up.

I haven't cracked open mine yet.
Has anyone figured out the purpose of the rubber disk?
Could it be an air pressure release valve through the cap for over-pressure?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:16 pm

i definitely would NOT recommend putting anything extra in the puck that could stop up or restrict flow and change blowing a seal out. That would be an expensive learning curve!

There is a small spring between the puck and the rubber diaphragm. I think it acts like a regulator to prevent too much suction in cases when the turbo is at very high boost levels and pulling high flows from the puck.
Its a complicated little item the way the flow path is designed to try and prevent oil from leaving the puck.
I don't fully understand the "J" trap on the drain unless it is to create a different pressure zone on the drain side and keep the puck from sucking on that side?
Pipe cleaner inserted in drain hole and "J" tube for clarity.

CVC Puck dissected:

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:38 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

i definitely would NOT recommend pulling anything in the puck that could stop up or restrict flow and change blowing a seal out. That would be an expensive learning curve!

I was thinking like a ss pot scrubber. josh8loop in this thread reported that it doubled his oil extraction when he installed it pre cyclone separator:

josh8loop wrote:

I just confirmed my visual observation of the oil collected. After measuring it this afternoon, I can now say that without SS mesh installed the oil collection rate is .00011 ounce per mile, and with SS mesh installed is .0002 ounce per mile. Looks like I've nearly doubled the separation efficiency by adding the loosely packed mesh. This is heading in the right direction!

WWDiesel wrote:

There is a small spring between the puck and the rubber diaphragm. I think it acts like a regulator to prevent too much suction in cases when the turbo is at very high boost levels and pulling high flows from the puck.

So it looks like the rubber seal is designed to mate (with high enough vacuum) to the small exit hole in the center?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:56 pm

Squeeto wrote:

So it looks like the rubber seal is designed to mate (with high enough vacuum) to the small exit hole in the center?

Yes, that is the way I see it as well. If the suction or negative pressure being applied by the turbo becomes to great, it will pull the rubber diaphragm down overcoming the small spring and close off or regulate the flow leaving the puck.

The top of intake has a long narrow upper chamber with three ports cast in it that allows the the flow to go up and through this chamber and then into the puck.
The flow then goes through a spiral in the puck much like a spiral seashell or watch spring before it finally enters the center of the puck where the flow must turn up to enter the outlet pipe going to the turbo inlet pipe. The center of the spiral right below where the flow must turn up also has a small port that will allow oil to drain back into a small cavity in the intake that has a single drain hole in the corner that has the "J" tube or trap connected to it. I believe this "J" trap acts much like your sink trap to prevent any flow into the puck but only allow oil to drain out as it accumulates.

I strongly believe that having a pipe that forces the flow to go up and over an incline that is higher the the top of the puck will help prevent a lot of the oil from ever leaving the puck.
That is one of the reasons I installed a metal pipe between the puck and the Provent on my Jeep. I now get very little liquid trapped in the Provent anymore.

picture shows metal pipe before insulation. Note the rise leaving the puck.

rancherman · **Posted:** Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:40 am

A dirty air filter will dramatically increase the vacuum seen at the puck.

I've read where some road rally racers are running their crankcase vents through a header mounted Bernoulli type evac tube... It works too well, and some had to really choke it down. Sucked 5 quarts out of the engine in some insane short time.. like 40 miles of racing.
My guess is that rubber flap is for the extreme few of us :roll:

That miss servicing the filter

Oil-Air Separator

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