LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep

I think you guys are talking past each other - the HOAT coolant recommended for the CRD is an Extended Life Coolant, and the original factory coolant was Red.

to the original post - Yellow/green/red - are due to the advertising department - the Chemistry guys can make anything any color you want. To get the right type READ THE LABEL.

and do not mix the recommended HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) with OAT (Organic Acid Technology) or the Ethylene glycol, Propylene glycol - you can cause problems (normally clogging of the radiator)

Best BET - flush radiator - refill with factory recommended - either Mopar or Zerox G05 & distilled water (grocery store)

Some of the others may work - but there's no data and you are the test.

And "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!" from me too.

Zerex G5 is available at NAPA and is what's supposed to be used. This engine is too expensive to mess with the wrong stuff :JEEPIN:

I'm sure that the Zerex is fine stuff. If available and convenient, then why not just use the stuff from the dealer? What am I missing?

Hoosier CRD

For what it's worth I suspect the Mopar ELC and Motorcraft Gold ELC come off the Zerex "assembly line" in a container with different labels and maybe a bit of coloring. Just my opinion but I think back to my diving days when folks got into heated debates about who made the best aluminum scuba tanks when they all came from the same tank company and got the "seller" company stamp added at the end of the line.

msilbernagel wrote:

Check out Wal Mart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Peak-Final-Charge-50-50-Pre-Diluted-Global-Extended-Life-Anti-Freeze/17201155?ci_sku=17201155&ci_src=14110944&sourceid=1500000000000003260530

$74.18, 6 gallons.

The above link clearly states :juggle:

It features a patented Organic Acid Technology (OAT) formula
Are we not supposed to use HOAT in our CRD's :JEEPIN:

Zerex G5 is not clear, it's a light red or orange color :SOMBRERO:

Author:	tailfeathers [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:10 am ]
Post subject:	Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
When we purchased our 06 liberty diesel it had a yellow anyifreeze in it and the service tech told us if we ever had to add antifreeze we had to use the yellow colred stuff and that we could not mix in the green antifreeze. A month ago we had a local mechanic put in a new timming belt and related parts, he flushed the cooling system and put the regular old green antifreeze in the jeep. Is this ok or should he have used the yellow antifreeze?? What is the difference between the green and yellow antifreeze?? Thanks

Author:	Hoosier CRD [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
The best/proper antifreeze is the orange stuff from the Jeep dealer along with distilled water in a 50/50 mix. There is an aftermarket brand with the proper chemistry but I'm uncertain of the brand so I will not say for sure; I'm thinking Zerex though. I'm not totally certain at this writing, but I think strongly that there is an imcompatiblity between the green and orange. Too, I think that the green stuff is not compatible with some of the components in the CRD engine. Why did the technician use/switch to the green? Typically, one would replace like for like, i.e. take out the orange, put back in the orange. There are others on this forum that know for certain of the incompatibilities. Sorry for a lack of specifics. FWIW, Hoosier CRD

Author:	Cowpie1 [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
I own and operate a International 9400i semi truck. It has a Cummins ISX 15L engine. The similarity in design between the ISX and 2.8L VM engine in the CRD is stunning. One commonality is the use of wet sleeve cylinders. Cavitation is a common problem with wet sleeves. The water molecules in the coolant literally explode on the sleeve surface from the heat. This pits the sleeve and eventually will destroy the liner. The goal is to eliminate that issue. That is why you need an antifreeze designed for that purpose. Short of going to a waterless coolant, like Evans brand coolant, the best coolant you can use in the CRD engine is the Extended Life Coolant (ELC) which is red in color. Not to be confused with Dexcool and other stuff at Wally world. ELC will be specifically designed to meet all the Cat, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Volvo, Mack, etc engines and will say so quite clearly on the jug. It provides maximum protection against cavitation and also water pump lubricity. It requires no SCA's (supplementary coolant additives). It will say that on the jug as well. It has a 600,000 mile coolant life (with adding an extender at 300,000 miles). Brand of ELC is not really important. Look for the best price. All the major brands, Delo, Rotella, Cat, Fleetrite, Global, etc of ELC coolant is the same stuff. Farm and home stores may have the stuff, but the best place to locate it is at truck stops or heavy truck dealers. One my argue whether this is the right product to use or not in the 2.8L, but after 30 years in trucking and having racked up almost 4 million miles, and having turned a lot of wrenches on these, short of going with a waterless coolant like Evans, the ELC coolant is the best thing for the CRD engine. It exceeds any OEM requirements for the VM engine in the CRD. Cylinder sleeve cavitation is a terrible waste of a good engine. Either you want what is the best for that engine or you don't. The price is not that bad compared to other coolants. The other coolants designed for diesels require regular testing for SCA concentration in the coolant. ELC does not use SCA's and needs no regular testing for SCA level of the coolant. If the SCA level in the coolants other than ELC drops too low, then cylinder sleeve cavitation will become a problem. Just save yourself the trouble and use the best, readily available consumer product for diesel engines.... an ELC coolant. Preferably in a 50/50 premix off the shelf since they already use a distilled water in them. Get the other junk flushed out of the system and go with an ELC coolant. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Author:	papaindigo [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
COLOR MEANS NOTHING, the average tech looked at the antifreeze book once years ago and not since then, the owner's manual is your friend. Mixing antifreeze types in the CRD VM engine can and has caused completely plugged radiators for forum members. I'd look for the link but won't bother. With due deference to Cowpie1 the VM engine is not a Cat, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Volvo, or Mack. The correct coolant for the CRD VM diesel and, for over a decade, for other Chrysler family products and almost as long Fords is a HOAT based Extended Life Coolant NOT an OAT based ELC and certainly not a "universal" coolant that's long life or not. You need to ASAP flush the rainbow out of your cooling system, for how see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63883&p=705410&hilit=flush+radiator#p705410 ; or do a multiple clean water fill/drain until water comes mostly clear of color-takes about 6 cycles to get close enough. Use the drain tool at viewtopic.php?f=98&t=56398 . A simple one time drain won't do as the lower radiator hose and maybe other system points are below the radiator drain plug. HOAT coolant = Xerex G-05 available from NAPA or any good parts store; Mopar ELC; Ford Motorcraft Premium Gold; there may be others that I do not know about. Price is not a particular issue given that you need like 1.6gallons and it lasts 5 years so who cares if it's $10 or $15 per gallon especially if running around burns up a couple of gallons of diesel at $4 a gallon.

Author:	Cowpie1 [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
And unlike most every other consumer engine in autos and pickups, the VM has wet sleeve cylinders, which have their own unique problems that are not an issue with traditional cast block engines found in autos and pickups. True the VM is not a Cat, Detroit, or Cummins engine, but VM is (or at least was) a subsidiary of Penske/Detroit Diesel. The VM engines were developed initially for marine use. That is what they are more similar to the heavy truck engines in design than the typical engines in most autos and pickups. All the major truck engine OEM's have gone over to factory fill of ELC coolant for several years now. That's fine if you differ from my recommendation. Your engine, your call. I have found that following the Technology and Maintenance Council's guidelines on coolant, as well as other stuff, is a pretty good call. And the current TMC recommendation is for ELC in modern diesels. No one is mandated to follow their recommendations on anything. Fun part of being in the transportation sector is the advantage of having multitude millions of miles of real world testing data analyzed by some of the best mechanics in America who are part of the TMC. And it is fun to have access to all this data and recommendations as a TMC member. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

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Author:	ATXKJ [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
I think you guys are talking past each other - the HOAT coolant recommended for the CRD is an Extended Life Coolant, and the original factory coolant was Red. to the original post - Yellow/green/red - are due to the advertising department - the Chemistry guys can make anything any color you want. To get the right type READ THE LABEL. and do not mix the recommended HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) with OAT (Organic Acid Technology) or the Ethylene glycol, Propylene glycol - you can cause problems (normally clogging of the radiator) Best BET - flush radiator - refill with factory recommended - either Mopar or Zerox G05 & distilled water (grocery store) Some of the others may work - but there's no data and you are the test. And "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!" from me too.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
ATXKJ wrote: I think you guys are talking past each other - the HOAT coolant recommended for the CRD is an Extended Life Coolant, and the original factory coolant was Red. to the original post - Yellow/green/red - are due to the advertising department - the Chemistry guys can make anything any color you want. To get the right type READ THE LABEL. and do not mix the recommended HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) with OAT (Organic Acid Technology) or the Ethylene glycol, Propylene glycol - you can cause problems (normally clogging of the radiator) Best BET - flush radiator - refill with factory recommended - either Mopar or Zerox G05 & distilled water (grocery store) Some of the others may work - but there's no data and you are the test. And "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!" from me too. X2 Use what is recommended.HOAT coolant has been around just as long as OAT coolants and cause less issues.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Zerex G5 is available at NAPA and is what's supposed to be used. This engine is too expensive to mess with the wrong stuff

Author:	Cowpie1 [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Joe Romas wrote: Zerex G5 is available at NAPA and is what's supposed to be used. This engine is too expensive to mess with the wrong stuff You are right about that. That is also why I am particular what goes into my Cummins ISX. Just got a quote on a factory remanned ISX... $21,000.00. Just hope I can get 1.4 million out of this one like I did my previous N14.

Author:	taroo [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Xerex G05

Author:	Hoosier CRD [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
I'm sure that the Zerex is fine stuff. If available and convenient, then why not just use the stuff from the dealer? What am I missing? Hoosier CRD

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Hoosier CRD wrote: I'm sure that the Zerex is fine stuff. If available and convenient, then why not just use the stuff from the dealer? What am I missing? Hoosier CRD You can use the OEM coolant,Ford premium gold,or Zerex GO5 as they all are the correct HOAT coolant.It's a price difference between those is why most say to use the GO5.

Author:	racertracer [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Hoosier CRD wrote: I'm sure that the Zerex is fine stuff. If available and convenient, then why not just use the stuff from the dealer? What am I missing? Hoosier CRD No difference in formula except that Zrex-05 is clear in color and the Oem Hoat coolant is Red, also the dealer sells the OEM coolant for + $1.99 more per gallon. I used the OEM stuff.

Author:	Hoosier CRD [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Okay, thanks race and tjkj. I bought the OE stuff recently too. For me, it's kinda like the old GM Parts marketing campaign: "It doesn't just fit, it matches." A couple bucks less per gallon is not enough to motivate me to switch to an aftermarket brand. FWIW, Hoosier CRD

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Author:	papaindigo [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
For what it's worth I suspect the Mopar ELC and Motorcraft Gold ELC come off the Zerex "assembly line" in a container with different labels and maybe a bit of coloring. Just my opinion but I think back to my diving days when folks got into heated debates about who made the best aluminum scuba tanks when they all came from the same tank company and got the "seller" company stamp added at the end of the line.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
papaindigo wrote: For what it's worth I suspect the Mopar ELC and Motorcraft Gold ELC come off the Zerex "assembly line" in a container with different labels and maybe a bit of coloring. Just my opinion but I think back to my diving days when folks got into heated debates about who made the best aluminum scuba tanks when they all came from the same tank company and got the "seller" company stamp added at the end of the line. You can't beat steel tanks.

Author:	SpaghettiCRD [ Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
I gotta agree with Cowpie. After a lot of research, I decided to go with PEAK FINAL CHARGE GLOBAL. It's designed for wet liner diesels and is a heavy duty coolant designed to prevent cavitation. NAPA can get it for you, but it ain't cheap. About $30 a gallon. From what I've read, it's the best bet for our VM's. I also have a 2007 Dodge 2500 w/ the Cummins 5.9L and it's getting the same coolant when I flush it this month.

Author:	msilbernagel [ Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Check out Wal Mart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Peak-Final-Charge-50-50-Pre-Diluted-Global-Extended-Life-Anti-Freeze/17201155?ci_sku=17201155&ci_src=14110944&sourceid=1500000000000003260530 $74.18, 6 gallons.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
msilbernagel wrote: Check out Wal Mart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Peak-Final-Charge-50-50-Pre-Diluted-Global-Extended-Life-Anti-Freeze/17201155?ci_sku=17201155&ci_src=14110944&sourceid=1500000000000003260530 $74.18, 6 gallons. The above link clearly states *It features a patented Organic Acid Technology (OAT) formula* Are we not supposed to use HOAT in our CRD's Zerex G5 is not clear, it's a light red or orange color

Author:	racertracer [ Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wht antifreeze should be in the jeep
Joe Romas wrote: msilbernagel wrote: Check out Wal Mart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Peak-Final-Charge-50-50-Pre-Diluted-Global-Extended-Life-Anti-Freeze/17201155?ci_sku=17201155&ci_src=14110944&sourceid=1500000000000003260530 $74.18, 6 gallons. The above link clearly states *It features a patented Organic Acid Technology (OAT) formula* Are we not supposed to use HOAT in our CRD's Zerex G5 is not clear, it's a light red or orange color Joe, Zerex G5 is now clear was red or orange in the past. I bought a few replacement gallons when I was experiencing loss of coolant during my head gasket problem last year and the color in the gallon containers went from red/orange to clear. I don't know why Valvoline changed the color but it did change.