ARP head studs

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:00 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

well, it's done. More pictures and details to follow after I get some sleep, probably tomorrow night.

A couple of interesting points-

Getting from 100 FP to 120 was fairly predictable in terms of wrench turn angle. About 1/3 to 1/2 turn and the wrench clicked. From 120 to 140 was not nearly so consistent, so I elected to tighten to 130 and then to 140. Even with smaller steps, I got some surprisingly large variance in pull angles.

This is either the head being pulled into alignment with the block by the studs, or the ARP washers compressing that outside ridge left by the TTY bolt heads. I strongly suspect the latter, and suspect the variance in pull angle is the result of differing sized ridges (height and width). I will put a straightedge on the top of the head tomorrow and see if it is warped. The next one of these I do I will either have a new head or I will get/make a piloted mill the right width and remove the ridge prior to torquing the studs.

I will remove one of the nuts later this week and see whether that ridge has been squashed flat or what. I suspect that it has, since when the washer was snug tight it was about 0.010" above the surface of the head, and now that they are all torqued up they are about 0.020" or 0.030" below the surface of the head.
EDIT to add> I did check these and they were flattened out, but at the price of minor distortion of the head. Recommend that the studs be torqued to 125 pound-feet for the outside bolts and 130 for the inner. This will leave the ring uncrushed, so that will have to be removed prior to doing the work.

The other thing is that removing the last 12 bolts showed a continuation of the variability in TTY bolt torque. 2 were fairly easy, and 3 were very difficult. I'd guesstimate the torque on those hard ones at 300+ FP; at least 150 pounds pull on a 2 1/2' breaker/cheater combo.

An 11mm 6 pt impact socket is highly recommended.

EDIT to add> I did check these and they were flattened out, but at the price of minor distortion of the head. Recommend that the studs be torqued to 125 pound-feet for the outside bolts and 130 for the inner. This will leave the ring uncrushed, so that will have to be removed prior to doing the work.

Is this the current 'list recommended' torqure for a new head / gaskets and studs

thx

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:22 pm

That's what I used.

over 3000 miles. No problems yet.

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:29 pm

GordnadoCRD wrote:

That's what I used.

over 3000 miles. No problems yet.

Appreciate the feedback, any other tips from this massive thread. I'm gonna try to condense this to the basics for others unless I've missed the summary on the site somewhere.

Nuts flush with top of stud then screwed into block to that depth so i've read, with washer of course. Amount of lube?

Also found the torque sequence on this site? Okay?

Torque Specs Page 54
Torque Pattern page 137 pattern #258
http://olybrake.com/pdf/fel_pro_torque_specs_guide.pdf

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:18 pm

Not so much the amount of lube, but the most important thing is where you put it, and where you shouldn't. I think there are instructional yuutube videos on installing ARP studs on jeep crd.
I'm in a hurry or would look them up. Geordi's method was the most helpful to me, when I ran into problems doing it the way I thought was correct (it wasn't)

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:54 pm

Lube on the fine threads, nut face, and washer.
Use just enough to get the job done

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:26 am

Per the ARP tech I spoke to when I was most recently installing the ARP studs and regarding the proper way to torque them, here is what I was told.

Blow out any debris that is in the holes.

1. Install a bone-dry stud into a bone-dry block and chase the threads with the stud up and down a few times to clean the threads.
2. Place a bone-dry washer on the bone-dry head.
3. Place a dab of lube on the upper part of the washer only, the bottom part of the washer must be bone dry.
4. Place a small dab of lube on the bottom of the nut.
5. Place a small dab of lube on the fine threads of the stud and screw the nut on till it reaches the top of the washer.
6. Use a small wrench to hand tighten the nut onto the head.
7. Using the proper torque wrench begin torquing the nuts in three separate torque sequences waiting 20 seconds between torques until the desired 125 to 130 lbs. is reached.

I waited for a few minutes between torques.

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:23 pm

Thanks racertracer!

So one final question is I believe I'm supposed to place the nut/washer onto the stud screwing the nut flush to the top of the stud and run the stud into the block that far down, no need to tighten the stud into the block correct?

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:13 pm

Correct, hand (finger) tighten the stud into the block after the washer contacts the head. If you are doing one-by-one and the rest are remaining tight (rather than a fresh head gasket) then you can torque in sequence right to the final - 130 for the center rows, 120 for the outside rows.

If this is a new head gasket, then I go in stages with every nut. Follow the factory numbering pattern and tighten to 50 then 80 then 100... And then one by one completely loosen, reset to flush with the top of the stud, hand tighten the stud again, and torque to 130 or 120.

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:41 am

It's a new gasket and head, gonna have the other one rebuilt to sell. So I assume on the second torquing to go back and to the pattern 50 80 100 then 120 or 130 depending on row correct?
Appreciate the help.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:33 am

geordi wrote:

If this is a new head gasket, then I go in stages with every nut. Follow the factory numbering pattern and tighten to 50 then 80 then 100... And then one by one completely loosen, reset to flush with the top of the stud, hand tighten the stud again, and torque to 130 or 120.

Follow the factory pattern. It is in the "head bolt research thread" sticky on the first page if you don't have the graphic.

Install the stud assembly with the nut and washer already on and flush with the top of the stud and lubed as described further up on this page. Hand tighten the studs using an allen key.

Follow the factory pattern, torque each nut to 50 lbs.
Without loosening anything, follow the factory pattern again and torque each nut to 80 lbs.
Without loosening anything, follow the factory pattern again and torque each nut to 100 lbs.

NOW - each one in turn, follow the factory pattern and loosen the nut completely, back the stud out and re-set the nut flush with the top of the stud. Hand tighten the stud. Torque the nut right to the final value, 130 lb-ft for the inside rows (positions 1-10) or 120 for the outside rows.

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:45 pm

Got it, no step torquing on final pass, just torque to 120 or 130 as appropriate for nut location.

Thanks!

joe_ · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:31 pm

vwroad87 wrote:

Got it, no step torquing on final pass, just torque to 120 or 130 as appropriate for nut location.

Thanks!

And in case it isn't obvious, once you remove one to reset the nut flush with the stud, torque it down before removing the next one. :seuss:

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:34 pm

joe_ wrote:

vwroad87 wrote:

Got it, no step torquing on final pass, just torque to 120 or 130 as appropriate for nut location.

Thanks!

And in case it isn't obvious, once you remove one to reset the nut flush with the stud, torque it down before removing the next one. :seuss:

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:38 pm

got it all torqued down finally,

thanks everyone who contributed to this noob's first time effort

my old head will be professionally rebuilt and sold and good/used, anyone interested pm me

encswsm · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:21 am

racertracer wrote:

Per the ARP tech I spoke to when I was most recently installing the ARP studs and regarding the proper way to torque them, here is what I was told.

Blow out any debris that is in the holes.

1. Install a bone-dry stud into a bone-dry block and chase the threads with the stud up and down a few times to clean the threads.
2. Place a bone-dry washer on the bone-dry head.
3. Place a dab of lube on the upper part of the washer only, the bottom part of the washer must be bone dry.
4. Place a small dab of lube on the bottom of the nut.
5. Place a small dab of lube on the fine threads of the stud and screw the nut on till it reaches the top of the washer.
6. Use a small wrench to hand tighten the nut onto the head.
7. Using the proper torque wrench begin torquing the nuts in three separate torque sequences waiting 20 seconds between torques until the desired 125 to 130 lbs. is reached.

I waited for a few minutes between torques.

I have a question can I use these torque values with new Head bolts? I'm doing the top end of my 06 Lib. it has 280000 miles on it and its getting a refresh. I couldn't bring myself to spend almost 400 bucks for a stud kit.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:10 am

Stumbled up on this yesterday in case anyone is wanting to do the degree angle torque as per the FSM.

Summit Racing Equipment
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-m205
Performance Tool Mechanics Torque Angle Gauges M205 -- $15.97
Torque Angle Gauge, 1/2 in. Drive, 0-360 Degree Range, 2 Degree Increments, Each

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:52 am

encswsm wrote:

racertracer wrote:

Per the ARP tech I spoke to when I was most recently installing the ARP studs and regarding the proper way to torque them, here is what I was told.

Blow out any debris that is in the holes.

1. Install a bone-dry stud into a bone-dry block and chase the threads with the stud up and down a few times to clean the threads.
2. Place a bone-dry washer on the bone-dry head.
3. Place a dab of lube on the upper part of the washer only, the bottom part of the washer must be bone dry.
4. Place a small dab of lube on the bottom of the nut.
5. Place a small dab of lube on the fine threads of the stud and screw the nut on till it reaches the top of the washer.
6. Use a small wrench to hand tighten the nut onto the head.
7. Using the proper torque wrench begin torquing the nuts in three separate torque sequences waiting 20 seconds between torques until the desired 125 to 130 lbs. is reached.

I waited for a few minutes between torques.

I have a question can I use these torque values with new Head bolts? I'm doing the top end of my 06 Lib. it has 280000 miles on it and its getting a refresh. I couldn't bring myself to spend almost 400 bucks for a stud kit.

No, the factory bolts are toque to yield, and TTY bolts need to be torqued into the yielding range. There's no shortcut to do that consistently. The tool that was linked is also a pain to use, I found it so inaccurate that I went back to marking the bolt, but that was on a VW that has no studs available (bew). You'll regret not using ARPs. Just over $300 at lightning motorsports.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:47 pm

DO NOT USE the angle method with ARP studs. It is not the correct procedure.
DO NOT USE the torque method with the factory bolts - it is also not the correct procedure.

I do not understand why anyone would want to use the factory bolts over the much-superior ARP studs, but if you choose to use the bolts, you MUST follow the factory book 100%.

Not one CRD with the ARP studs has reported a problem when following the ARP-approved torque value procedure I posted above.
No CRD owner has reported back with a subsequent head gasket leak when using ARP, if the gasket was replaced OR there was no leak before installing the studs. If a leak had presented itself (coolant alarms every few/6 weeks)... Results are mixed. There have been subsequent re-leaking after several years in two occasions. I do not suggest any longer to retain the existing gasket if a leak has already presented itself.

Thus far, the "cold engine test" has been 100% conclusive in finding possible head gasket leaking without disassembling the motor. Every one that has had pressure on the cold test, has passed the same test after the gasket was replaced and studs were added.

Steve777 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 pm **Posts:** 279

Getting ready to install a new HG and head on my project CRD and have ARP studs. Thanks for the description/steps here. I did have one question though:

The instructions which came with the studs suggested installing the studs in the block, then fitting the head over the studs. Seems to me that would make for a harder alignment when lifting the head on than necessary. I would think that one should clean/dry the stud holes. Fit the HG and head. Then install the studs using the procedure here.

Just curious to get feedback from those of you who have done this, which is the easier method, install studs first, or place head first?

ARP head studs

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