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| ARP head studs http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65524 |
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| Author: | Dent [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
When replacing the studs one by one without pulling the head, what is the wisdom on torque sequence? The second sequence from the FSM for head re-installation? |
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| Author: | Mountainman [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Dent wrote: When replacing the studs one by one without pulling the head, what is the wisdom on torque sequence? The second sequence from the FSM for head re-installation? There are several ways people are doing them. I think I put them at 100 ft/lbs and then followed factory up to 125/130, or did I do 80, then 100, then full torque  They talk about it if you read the entire thread.
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| Author: | Dent [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
I see several mentions of torque specs. I am interested in sequence. The FSM has one sequence for initial torque, and then a follow up, but since the head is already torqued, I was thinking that following the second sequence would make sense, but ? |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Hello Dent, When the head is already installed and the studs are being added one-by-one, the sequence is irrelevant. You can do them in any way you'd like. Since each bolt is being removed while all the others are still locked down, the head never moves. That is the ultimate goal with this method - the head shouldn't move. As for torque, ARP has updated their procedures and approved the method of installation when doing the one-by-one process: With the lubed nut, washer, and fine threads assembled so the nut is flush with the top of the stud (and the wide threads are DRY, no lube added) use a hex key to drive the stud to finger-tight contact with the head. Then you are safe to torque directly to full torque, either 130 for the center rows (bolts 1-10 on the factory chart) or 125 on the outer rows (bolts 11-18). You do not need to do any "stages" of torque. Please record your release torques if you can according to the instructions in the "research request" sticky thread. I understand if time is not an option, but it may be helpful to others if you can. |
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| Author: | Dent [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Thanks Georgi, I will post the removal torque. I bought one of those digital extensions so it should be easy to record the removal torque. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
I hope yours works better than mine did - the one from Harbor Fart (China Freight) SUCKED and didn't read max values at all. It worked ok as an actual torque wrench, but I wasn't going to trust it for that anyway. |
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| Author: | Dent [ Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs -- rocker inspection and intake ports |
What am I looking for in the rocker inspections? I assume that there is no play in the rollers and that they roll smooth. Anything else. I am going to take a careful look at them, but so far they look fine. 100k miles. What do people do with intake ports. Mine a gunked and slimey. Replacing this valve cover without disturbing those rockers must be a real joy. Going to order a few studs to align, but it looks like that's going to be a blast. |
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| Author: | Mountainman [ Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs -- rocker inspection and intake ports |
Dent wrote: What am I looking for in the rocker inspections? I assume that there is no play in the rollers and that they roll smooth. Anything else. I am going to take a careful look at them, but so far they look fine. 100k miles. What do people do with intake ports. Mine a gunked and slimey. Replacing this valve cover without disturbing those rockers must be a real joy. Going to order a few studs to align, but it looks like that's going to be a blast. I just look for the up and down play in them and that the valve end isn't grooved, maybe I should be checking the side to side also, but it's really nice to have a known good one to get a feel for how much play they have when they're new. Yeah, putting the top on sucks so bad that I'd suggest running new ones unless they feel about as good as a new one. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
You don't need alignment pins. Go to Home Depot with one of the bolts from the valve cover and match it at the store. I think it is an 8mmx1.25. I bought a couple 65mm long examples of that, then walked over to the bolt cutters and chopped the heads off of them. Instant pins. As for putting the thing back on, no surprises here: it is a touchy thing and you just gotta be careful. I've knocked them off a couple times too, and taking it apart again BLOWS if you have rebuilt most of the top. Take the pins out of the cover, and once you have the top on with just a couple bolts holding it, use one of the cam pulley bolts and a wrench to rotate the cam clockwise a few times. If it feels OK all the way around, then it is probably good. Do the other one, and THEN you can move on. If it sounds odd or clinky... Try again. |
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| Author: | Dent [ Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Just finished torquing the ARPs. Went to 130 inside (1-10) and 120 outside (11-18). #1 head bolt had what looked like water/coolant on it, and kinda smelled like coolant. That was the only one like that. I assume that these are not tapped into a water jacket, and any water had to come from the head gasket? The bolt was not rusted, and did not look like it had been exposed for a long time. Let me know if there needs to be sealant on the #1 stud, but I'm assuming not, and crossing my fingers that if the head gasket did leak, the ARPs will mash it closed. Geordi, About the HF torque adapter, yes that is what mine is. I tried to use the memory but gave up and used it like this: If it is set to PtoP (the default on mode), when you apply a torque, that torque will remain displayed until you reapply. So I unscrewed my bolts until they broke, wrote down the torque displayed on the wrench, and finished unscrewing. Also, the torque adapter was very close to my craftsman clicker. I plugged it into the clicker, set both to 110 for initial torque, and both reported at nearly the same displacement. I know that's a little off because of the adapter losing torque at the wrench head, but it's close. Typically I had to go and extra 3 ft. lbs on the adapter to get the wrench to click. |
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| Author: | geordi [ Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
I wouldn't worry about the water on the bolt, it most likely was just something that had dribbled onto it from inside when you released the tension. Exactly as you suspected. I'll have to mess with that HF torque thing again to see if mine wants to work like yours. I'm not sure it will, but then the directions and the device itself aren't the highest quality anyway. If the numbers reset to zero each time you started on a new bolt though, then the numbers should be accurate. The real test I'm looking for is the variance within a given engine, not the specific numbers. So if one is 120 and another is 80 - that is a 40 lb variance, and that is statistically important. The fact that one is 120 is irrelevant to my thinking, as long as the numbers within the same engine are all taken the same way. |
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| Author: | Dent [ Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
geordi wrote: I wouldn't worry about the water on the bolt, it most likely was just something that had dribbled onto it from inside when you released the tension. Exactly as you suspected. I'll have to mess with that HF torque thing again to see if mine wants to work like yours. I'm not sure it will, but then the directions and the device itself aren't the highest quality anyway. If the numbers reset to zero each time you started on a new bolt though, then the numbers should be accurate. The real test I'm looking for is the variance within a given engine, not the specific numbers. So if one is 120 and another is 80 - that is a 40 lb variance, and that is statistically important. The fact that one is 120 is irrelevant to my thinking, as long as the numbers within the same engine are all taken the same way. Thanks and agreed with the variation. The more I think about it, the more I think my 99 ft.lb. reading was a screw up on my end. I also usually don't cheap out on my tools. My 1/4 and 3/8 sockets and ratchets are snap-on, but I am impressed with this torque adapter. I would buy a higher end one, especially if the programming were a bit better. I still don't get the stored values and the trace function. Need to play around with is and translate the Chinglish instructions. |
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| Author: | Dent [ Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
About cleaning the slimy gunked intake ports in the head, any suggestions? Brake cleaner or something like that? Blow out with compressed air through glow plug hole? Just leave it alone? Any thoughts? |
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| Author: | geordi [ Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
In the head itself or the valve cover? The runners in all the heads I have seen have all been basically fine, a thin coating is about all that ever grows there b/c the air is just moving too fast to deposit anything past the main gallery of the valve cover. Even within the main gallery, I haven't seen any buildup like on the TDI where the entire intake can be plugged with filth from the EGR and oil. If you eliminate the EGR soot however with the elbow kit, then the oil from the CCV (which is PERFECTLY OK to have) will eventually dissolve and carry away all that other crap. It will be burned away and you will be fine. For cleaning the valve cover, you can dunk the main gallery in diesel fuel and leave it for a day or two - that will accelerate the dissolving of all that goop and then you can just wash it out with brake cleaner to your heart's content. Filling the intake tracks with diesel will work there too, but you can't do that on the head unless it is out of the engine. Maybe a plastic bristle bottle brush on a drill and brake cleaner if you truly insist? But honestly, I wouldn't bother. It won't be enough of a performance difference to really be worth the effort. |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Dent wrote: When replacing the studs one by one without pulling the head, what is the wisdom on torque sequence? The second sequence from the FSM for head re-installation? I replaced mine according to the factory install sequence, although it probably is not required. I know Geordi does not do that and so far he has had good results. I'm willing to spend the extra time to do them in sequence; I also cleaned all the threads with a tap per the ARP stud recommendations, and I doubt many other people do that either. I installed all of my studs then torqued them each in sequence in stages to 120/130 FPT. |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Dent wrote: About cleaning the slimy gunked intake ports in the head, any suggestions? Brake cleaner or something like that? Blow out with compressed air through glow plug hole? Just leave it alone? Any thoughts? I soaked mine in solvent, and used brushes and carb cleaner to get the last of it out, then relubed the cam bearings afterwards.
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
Most of the information on installation of studs is on pages 4, 5, and 6. |
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
this thread has been buried, and I see from the head bolt release thread that at least one person is looking for it, so I'll bump it Pages 4 5 and 6 have most of the useful information, but anyone wanting to know how we got here is encouraged to read the beginning, too. LMWatBullRun |
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| Author: | dgeist [ Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
LMWatBullRun wrote: this thread has been buried, and I see from the head bolt release thread that at least one person is looking for it, so I'll bump it Pages 4 5 and 6 have most of the useful information, but anyone wanting to know how we got here is encouraged to read the beginning, too. LMWatBullRun Hey, how's that HowTo coming? 
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| Author: | LMWatBullRun [ Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ARP head studs |
dgeist wrote: LMWatBullRun wrote: this thread has been buried, and I see from the head bolt release thread that at least one person is looking for it, so I'll bump it Pages 4 5 and 6 have most of the useful information, but anyone wanting to know how we got here is encouraged to read the beginning, too. LMWatBullRun Hey, how's that HowTo coming? You are the first person to ask, DG. I'm swamped right now, but maybe once I get my wife's CRd running and a couple other things I'll have time for a condensed tech write-up. No promises, but I will put it on the list. |
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