While completing the timing belt installation on our 2005 Libby, I got to the point of setting the tensioner according to the alignment shown in the service manual.. and noticed there seem to be two camps 'out there'. The first, championed by the factory service manual - shows a left-edge aligned tensioner (to give it a name..). The second is to align the spring end with the center notch on the tensioner alignment indicator.

So - which of these two alignment points is the best choice? Or.. does it matter?

Factory Service Manuals for 2005 and 2006 and ChileanKJ's writeup in the Tech Section show this (left-edge aligned):


ChileanKJ has a nice writeup in the Tech Section (viewtopic.php?t=45522):


GDE Engineering and at least one nicely done example show this (center notch aligned):

Beesville Bee Farm (?!) http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html


GDE

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Factory Service Manual is where I set mine. ChileanKJ is also the same as the Factory Service Manual.

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2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
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Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

Just wrapped up my TB change-out this weekend. I used the FSM to set the tensioner. But, had the other setting on my conscience. Almost cut an inspection hole and plugged it just to monitor, kinda like the "light inside the fridge thing".....

BTW, how many times did you rotate the engine to assure alignment? FSM says twice. I think I performed it 6-7 times....still don't sleep good at night...

Also, found my intake hose had rotted at the turbo end. Surprised the heck out of me!

There is a PSA for this in the noob guide as well as a notation at the end of my timing belt writeup about this with part numbers for the replacement part.

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Thanks Sir Sam, I did indeed reference your write up multiple times during the procedure. Got the part number from it, part should be here Friday (3/2).

2 - cause they said so.
3 - to stop and check the mark at the pulley for the Bosch fuel pump.
6 - to give it a chance to stretch, and check the marks again.
12 - to make sure it didn't keep stretching!

I checked the cam pins at 2, 6 and 12 and the crank pin at 2, and 6..

Slept well.

Mark

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

....on sleeping well....

As with any vehicle you have to accept that no matter how well you maintain it, pieces and parts are whizzing around in there at high speeds and S could HTF at any moment. It would suck, but I'd move on.

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2006 CRD Limited
SEGR Mod
Saikou Michi Condenser -- Deleted
Samco Hose Kit
Fumoto 102
Etecno1 GX3123 Steel 7V Glow Plugs
GDE FT Eco and Hot Tunes
JBA 4.5 UCAs
OME Lift

Tru 'nuf... the torque wrench I picked up for this job was a week late and defective out of the box! I suppose any of the parts just replaced could be also , and then I'd have to start over again.

Still, there is faith, Bro.. ..and hope!

Mark

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

The factory drawing also shows the spring tail against the stop. Is there text saying to tighten it until that tail touches the stop? Or does it actually say center the tail to the leading edge of the notch?

That is a very confusing drawing, and I question it more than GDE's picture. I've got to think that the spring tail is designed to center IN THE NOTCH, why else would there be a notch?

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

This is under the picture in my first post:

Fig. 176 TIMING BELT TENSIONER ALIGNMENT
1 - TENSIONER SPRING
2 - 1MM ALIGNMENT POINTER OVERLAP
3 - TENSIONER ALIGNMENT POINTER
4 - TENSIONER ASSEMBLY

The SM says (page 9-255 of the 2005SM) "(3) Align timing belt tensioner using special tool 9660, with the alignment pointer as shown and torque timing belt tensioner retaining bolt to 34.7N·m.(26 ft. lbs.). (Fig. 176). (4) Rotate engine 2 complete revolution and then recheck tensioner alignment. Readjust tensioner alignment as necessary."

Not particularly helpful in answering your question.

However, in my experience the spring rotates naturally as you turn clockwise with the tool to increase belt tension (the center bolt is loosened enough to turn but also mostly hold the tension you set). It (the wire) butts up against the stop significantly earlier than when the tension indicator with the notch finally arrives and matches up with it... It (the notched indicator) is far to the left (CCW) prior to reaching the right tension.

While setting the tension I had the tool in my left hand to turn it CW to increase tension, and a 3/8" drive with a 10mm socket in my right to loosen enough to make setting tension easy and then immediately lock it once the right position was achieved. The spring tail rotates and hits the stop first, followed shortly thereafter by the tang with the notch as you continue to rotate CW with the tool. I then put the final torque value on the bolt with the torque wrench.

So, if the wire does not reach the stop either you don't have enough tension yet or your tensioner pulley is defective (IMHO).

Mark

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Ah, I think I get it now. I misunderstood, the tang is the bit that moves with tension after the tail seats against the stop. But if you center the notch, then maybe it is allowed to drift back with rotations to the point shown in the factory picture...

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

Yes on the first part.

As for where to locate the notch, centered on the wire is slightly less tension than using the left edge of the tang/indicator as shown in the FSM... I don't know how significant the difference is, but the original factory setting lasted 165k so I'm stickin with it.

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Based on the picture (http://family.webshots.com/photo/224581 ... 9447LdspDc); to set the tension the assembly (#4) is rotated clockwise to the right until the tensioner spring (#1) is stopped from rotating by the raised tab on the engine at which point the assembly (#4) continues to be rotated clockwise until the alignment pointer (#3) lines up with its left edge overlaping the right edge of the spring (#1) by 1mm as shown by the alignment pointer overlap (#2). This puts the notch in the alignment pointer (#3) significantly clockwise to the right of the spring (#1) and that means the tension is set somewhat higher than if the spring (#1) was just aligned with the notch in the alignment pointer (#3), as noted by msilbernagel and I don't have a clue how much higher either.

What I don't know is how the timing belt tensioner functions internally. IIRC the serp belt tensioner functions like other spring loaded tensioners that I know where the pulley assembly is essentially set as an eccentric off to the side of a hold down bolt and the tension of an internal spring is what applies tension to the belt so as to accomidate belt stretch and such and there is no "tension" position to "set". I just don't know if this is the same case for the timing belt tensioner or whether once set in place its position is fixed and that's what applies tension. If the timing belt tensioner functions similar to the serp belt tensioner then it is capable of accomidating timing belt stretch and the relative positions noted above might relax over time. If so that would make me wonder if a "window" might be a good idea to allow one to, from time to time, check the marker position for excessive belt stretch. If, on the other hand, the spring is merely a pointer and the timing belt tensioner cannot flex, similar to the serp belt tensioner, then it cannot accomidate timing belt stretch and the relative positions noted above cannot change over time.

Long winded, possibly both confusing and wrong, but it may matter. If the timing belt tensioner functions so as to accomidate timing belt stretch then I'd sure want to set it, as outlined above, for the maximum initial tension. But that then raises the question of how much stretch is too much; whether that notch in the alignment pointer (#3) has any meaning in measuring that stretch; and whether a window might be a good idea.

EDIT - see GDE comment further down in this string. The TB tensioner is an auto tensioner similar to the serp belt tensioner.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Good discussion Papaindigo. Here's an interesting observation. When I removed the TB cover and looked at the tensioner, before removing TB, the alignment "slot" within the tab was to the left of the spring. Basically a mirror of the factory setting. Wish I had taken pictures..........

This might cause one to think that, as the belt stretches and time passes, that the two tabs that form the slot might themselves be the left and right limits of 'nominal' tension - and - that the designers expected it to relax over the 100k service limit but stay approximately within that range. ?

Almost wish you have a VM factory rep handy.

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Here are two views of where mine sat before my timing belt change.





I aligned it per the FSM, so tab to the right of the spring. My assumption at the time was that the belt stretched and the tensioner moved to maintain tension on the belt.

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2006 CRD Limited
SEGR Mod
Saikou Michi Condenser -- Deleted
Samco Hose Kit
Fumoto 102
Etecno1 GX3123 Steel 7V Glow Plugs
GDE FT Eco and Hot Tunes
JBA 4.5 UCAs
OME Lift

It would not surprise me much if the tensioner moves to accomidate stretch and that certainly makes sense. Whether the marks have any meaning relative to the amount of allowed stretch is beyond me and absent a viewing window kink of meaningless (e.g. absent a window if I go in far enough to look at say 50k, 1/2 way thru the interval, for the miniscule cost of $75 for a new TB I'll just throw a new TB on and not worry about stretch).

EDIT - see GDE comment further down in this string. The TB tensioner is an auto tensioner similar to the serp belt tensioner.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

This is an auto tensioner and the window will move relative to the spring arm as the belt wears in and stretches over time/miles.

I am not exactly sure why the service manual states what it does and shows a picture of the window past the arm. The guys we trained with on this engine at VM in Italy always set the window slightly past the spring so after two revolutions it relaxed a bit and the window settles with spring in the middle.

Not sure it makes a huge difference unless the belt tension is too high and it causes bearings to fail prematurely. We will get some clarification from VM regarding this. GDE

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