Top End Teardown

galatron · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:27 am

ok so I started my teardown on my 05 sport crd. I've got the radiator everything loosened up, fluids drained out, just have to get the fan, shroud, radiator, and intercooler out.

Somethings in the back of my mind are this.
1. I didn't see any orings around that black hockey puck. they were on my 06 CRD iirc..
2. the hose between the airbox and turbo was busted...

3. Should I remove the guts of the egr butterfly and block off both ends of the pipe?
4. on the egr (other side) should I make a plate and block that part of too?
5. should I go ahead and do the front shocks, since I see all four bolts right now.?
6. is there anything else I should look at?

I'm going to go ahead and get a new timing belt, and serp. belt. it the jeep already had a new turbo, waterpump, and timing belt installed,, I think it was just a shoddy job.

I'll post pictures when I get more time to do so. or you can look me up on google plus.

Oh, I forgot to mention, are the two screws that hold the shroud on, when I pulled the screws, antifreeze came out, were those screws really supposed to puncture the tank? if so...WTF? and if not GAAAARRR dealers....

ChesterCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:35 am

3, 4, probably not unless you have the SEGR kit installed or are OK with the CEL being on.

5. Maybe, if you need to do them.

6. Thermostat, alternator decoupler, hoses

My shroud bolts do not puncture my radiator.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:29 pm

There should have been 2 o-rings on that stupid CCV puck. Check the holes in the head, just in case they somehow fell off... But I would blame the idiot dealer.
Don't bother messing with the EGR itself, just pull the hard hoses from both sides and make blocking plates for both the exhaust manifold and the intake elbow. - IF you have an SEGR or a GDE Tune. Otherwise, the CEL is in your future.
Shocks... You have STRUTS and you don't want to take them out unless you can source a "quickstrut" replacement... You can't do that job yourself without a big press, the springs are compressed to allow the strut to be inserted and screwed down. Dangerous!

Other things to check - pull the butterfly disc from the FCV device, and leave the rest of it alone. This will keep the computer happy while keeping your engine happy when you kill the EGR.

About the radiator... The shroud is supposed to be held by 2 10mm bolts, threading into 2 "captured nuts" that are held in a little molded pocket on the exterior of the radiator shell - THEY DO NOT PENETRATE. IIRC, the bolts are only like 1/2" long (threaded portion) so if yours were longer or not a 10mm machine thread... That dealer owes you a new radiator.

Good luck.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:35 pm

FYI - the 4 bolts are not the hard part of replacing the front suspension
putting things back together without tearing the CV boot - that's the fun part.

personally I'd finish the engine first...

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:56 pm

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SZwMvmfr7ik/TzH5HRJU_cI/AAAAAAAACyo/ijMLeJLyKVw/s1024/IMG_20120207_222302.jpg
Well I got the timing cover off, if that link works, am I in time? need to get the belt off, timing gears off, idler pulley, and the rear cover off, then i'm 50% done... well ... maby.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:01 pm

Is this where the TB sits after the lifters broke? If so then no you are not in time or the lifters would not have broken. IMHO there is no way you can tell from what's in the picture if you are in time or not as there are no cam marks and the cams are not "keyed" to the cam shafts. The only way to tell is to get the engine to the proper position relative to TDC; I think but Sir Sam can confirm that's indicated by the flywheel pin and then to get both cam pins in place - of course if you are out of time this has to be done with be TB belt off.

Notwithstanding the above visually I think you are off a bit as the cam teeth do not point directly at each other but honestly that is little more than a guess.

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:54 am

Yes, that's where the cam is upon opening, but now I know that those indicators mean nothing.

http://youtu.be/L69XpqWO_wc
Here's me turning over the cam's upon opening up the lid, i discovered a lifter that siezed in its socket. several of the rockers were off the valve stems - could be from removal of the lid.
one of the cams has rough edges on the lobe. could I fine grit sand this down - just the edge... where it ground against the non roller part of the rocker.
I did get to meet up with TurboBill, awesome guy, thank you very much for the tools, parts and advice!
Several of the rockers looked to be missing the clips, and had the rollers pushed in, none looked to be cracked or bent, so I am in the market for probably a full set of rockers.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:47 am

The rockers fall off the valves so easy its likely that you knocked them off when you were removing the intake. have fun putting that back on, its going to take several tries before you feel confident that you go it right.

If you have not disconnect the wiring from the plugs on the passenger side of the engine bay and drape it over the drivers side fender, it will make it so much easier to get the intake on correctly with that out of the way.

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:15 pm

Where do we locate our engine number on the block? VM's asking me for a number that looks like this : R2816K5
any ideas?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:37 pm

The "form" of that number looks like a VM engine model number not serial # so try this copied from the 2005 FSM "The identification stamp for the 2.8L is located on the left side of the engine block, above the starter. The engine code label is located on the front timing cover and is the same as the engine I.D. and serial number."

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 pm

awesome, thanks!

galatron · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:19 am

So, I've uploaded more pictures to google plus for everyone to see the progress of the teardown, I've made my list of necessary parts now it's just budgeting time....
https://plus.google.com/s/galatron#115916983063626303838/posts
Thank you for all the help and suggestions everyone!

galatron · **Posted:** Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:28 pm

https://plus.google.com/s/harlan%20stanley#s/harlan%20stanley

OK!!! so I've got the engine almost back together!! YAY!
Just waiting on a new radiator and my plugs for the exhaust and intake manifolds.
Need to set time (hopefully Turbobill will come over for the assist on that!)
Enjoy the pictures of my labor... so far I've got about 15 hours into it. Lots of that was just looking and poking around.
Hopefully I'll get the remainder of the parts by the end of next week and she'll be back on the road!

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

It looks like I'm trailing some of you by a few weeks. I've got my top end torn apart, and I'm getting to the part ordering phase. A few questions to those who have done this recently:

(1) How much slop is there in the roller on a new rocker?
(2) Where did you get your rockers?
(3) Any in particular I should know about putting this monster back together?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:18 am

mtgstuber wrote:

It looks like I'm trailing some of you by a few weeks. I've got my top end torn apart, and I'm getting to the part ordering phase. A few questions to those who have done this recently:

(1) How much slop is there in the roller on a new rocker?

There are needle bearings inside, there should be very little. I suspect that there could me more subtle damage that's hard to detect so clean them well and inspect carefully. In mine, the force that broke the rockers crushed the lifters so they looked Ok but wouldn't travel..

mtgstuber wrote:

(2) Where did you get your rockers?

Got the Eurocams replacements from a 'Bro on this forum - PM?

mtgstuber wrote:

(3) Any in particular I should know about putting this monster back together?

Lot of details scattered through the timing belt threads - especially by those of us who've had the belt fail and damage rockers.

One quick take-away from scanning the experiences of others ahead of us - purchase or rent the tools and don't try to get by with substitutes. It seems that the allen-wrench solutions for the cams/crank can leave you one-tooth off (due to slop)... and that can leave you with the need for still more rocker arms. Word to the wise, unless you're a grizzled Pro (tm) from the diesel front lines. :JEEPIN:

Some of my work is journaled here: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64557

Mark

galatron · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:11 am

I got my rockers from forum member "wobbly" send a pm, I got them in a week! - THANK YOU!!!
the rocker bearings have some side to side play, but just about zero vertical play. I had several that have the bearing pressed in so far by the rocker that it was seized and where the cam lobes had ground grooves in to the rocker.
I had one exploded lifter.
I took apart all my lifters, cleaned with gasoline, sprayed with wd40, and reassembled. They are all spongey and coushiony.
I had two lifters that upon reassembly, seized up and would not come apart again.

*I have extra lifters for anyone that might want them - that said, I'll not guarantee the quality or reliability - some are from my engine, and some are from a member in Florida via another member here in Austin* But, I'll say with great confidence that the lifters can be rebuilt as long as it's done in a clean enviornment, parts removed with care, especially the little cap, and put back together with care, you will have to stamp back the cap a little bit to make it fit snug. I'll see about making a video or something about how to rebuild them.

Putting back together was pretty straightforward, I play with legos, so I think that besides the forum, I only used the manual to look for that hole to align the flexplate and the block hole for the 6mm allen key.

Depending on where you're at, I'm sure that other members in your locale would be willing to help, heck if you were/are in Austin, I'd be certainly happy to help!

HUGE thanks to Turbobill who handcrafted the cam gear tools and locating pins necessary breakdown/reassemble! :JEEPIN:

galatron · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:13 am

I haven't set the timing yet, but I hear that you should rotate the engine BY HAND at least twice or more to verify that your timing marks line back up.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:39 am

Yes at least twice (3 times if you had also 1st set the fuel pump marks together as IIRC those marks only line up every 3rd engine rotation) to 1) verify that all your marks line back up; 2) if you are the picky careful person I am to also verify that both the cam pins and the flywheel pin go back in easily to recheck the timing; and 3) because doing this will fully seat the timing belt in all the little teeth to make sure that the tension is set correctly (you will likely have to reset tension). IMHO it's then a good idea to, before putting the cover and serp belt stuff back on, crank the engine up for like 30 seconds and look/listen for any issues. If none put things back together.

mtgstuber · **Joined:** Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:15 pm **Posts:** 66

Should the three pins (intake, exhaust, flywheel) be in time with every revolution or only every third one?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:51 pm

There are 3 major reasons for manually rotating the engine after a TB install: 1) to "feel" if everything is rotating freely other than, of course, the compression strokes as you rotate; 2) to ensure the TB is fully seated on all the pulleys so that the final timing belt tension can be adjusted if need be; and 3) to make sure all the timing marks you made (see exception below) line up correctly at the end of the 2n or 3r revolution. If the "feel" is ok, the tension remains correct or is reset as need be, and the marks line up you are good to go. BUT I'm about as anal as they come about doing things "right" so IMHO an additional simple bit of extra insurance is after the last manual revolution with all the marks lined up go ahead and reinsert the 3 pins; if all is well (it should be) they will slide back in with zero resistance.

The pins function the same as timing marks on a gas engine. In other words they serve as a mark of one spot per 360 degrees of crank revolution that can be used to verify that the engine is correctly in time as it revolves. Rechecking the pins on each manual revolution is way over kill even by my standards.

Now to that exception noted above. The VM motor does not have, darn it, external timing marks, stupid design flaw, rather it relies on the 3 pins. So when you are doing a TB or TB/water pump job you need to mark various items relative to each other (ex. opposing cam teeth, cam teeth to adjacent part of the engine, fuel pump pulley to adjacent part of the engine - do at least 3 of those to make sure nothing slips out of place during assembly - Note obviously this does not apply to things that are not timed such as idler pulleys and water pump pulley). The exception is (see other picture posts on the forum) that the fuel pump pulley has a small notch in its skirt adjacent to the engine and that notch lines up with a raised "tick mark" on the engine just left of the pulley BUT only on every 3r engine revolution. IF you elect to use this mark, you don't have to, in addition to the marks you make it's important to remember to do 3 manual rotations, not 2, if you want to check that the factory fuel pump mark lines up. Some folks do this; IMHO it's not necessary.

Hopefully this makes sense.

Top End Teardown

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