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Torque Converter Options
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65963		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  chillmobil [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Torque Converter Options
Hi,

I know this has been covered before in some form or another but based on my last post of transmission quivering under the load of pulling my 3,500 lbs. trailer, you guys diagnosed I needed a new Torque Converter. What are my options and what can I expect to pay? Am I in for a $1,000 hit?

Basically what do you all recommend and that is affordable and available in Canada. Thanks!
Author:  msilbernagel [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
Don't know about availability up North, but all I hear when torque converters are spoken of are Suncoast and the Euro version... primarily the former.
Author:  arengant [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
You can get an OEM one (euro TC) for about 400 USD (plus 100 core) and it will handle 3,500 lbs no problem. The suncoast is like 700 USD I think.
Author:  chillmobil [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
Thanks. Is the OEM one as bad as the original one? Ie undersized?
Author:  warp2diesel [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
The Euro has bigger dampener springs and is what the stock converter should have bee since day one. VM recommended to Chrysler to use the larger dampener when they were testing, but the Bean Counter Engineers did not listen to VM.
Suncoast is a heavy duty TC that can handle up to Diesel 400HP, far more than the VM could ever put out.
To fix the problem for good, you should either install a Transgo kit in the front pump or replace the pump. There is a valve (see red arrow) with a soft seat that fails and trashes out the torque converter.
Image

If you don't fix or replace the front pump, you are gambling. The crappy front pump is why Chrysler detuned the CRD to ~160HP to get more of them through the warranty period and avoid a recall.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
I am contemplating having a local shop rebuild my transmission. I have been told that the OD clutches are bad.

Q. Is it possible that the pump valve is bad, causing the dropout/ clunk problem?

Q. If in fact the clutches are gone, and I have the whole transmission rebuilt, if I use the sun coast TC and a new pump, should I also include a Transgo kit as well?
Author:  crackher [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
Awesom info. i am in the process of upgrading the TC so my tranny shop dude talked about something like this. do you have or does someone know where I can get the parts or what the part numbers are. This way I can make sure that the correct parts are installed
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
I'm in the same boat as you guys, only a little farther along in the process. If you look around on the forum you can find the part numbers...when I'm in front of a PC I can try to post them. So far I have the Suncoast converter. In terms of absolute need, it and the Euro OEM are supposed to be equivalent. The Suncoast is heavier and is supposed to soak up some of the engine vibration. All parts inside are metal and the stall rpm is supposed to be a little lower. As far as ultimate longevity, no one really knows. I haven't seen any reports of either the Euro TC or Suncoast failing.

I was having the "clutch won't disengage at stop signs" issue too. Danoid was kind enough to offer some guidance here and suggested that the front pump was failing in all likelihood. Apparently, a potential failure mode is for it to leak fluid back into the sump and not provide enough pressure for the transmission to disengage the TC. A new one from an online dealer is about $300. It was $250 until I gave them a VIN to verify fitment. The part number didn't change but the price went up for some reason.
It was also relayed that the valve body could be playing a role in TC staying locked when stopping. New ones are about $600. Rebuilt ones on EBay are about $300. I purchased a Sharadon stage II for a little more than that. It is supposed to have a shift kit and some other things about it to firm up the shifts. The TCM is going to learn around that for the most part, but I was more comfortable getting a rebuilt VB that seems to have a reputable presence on the web. I've not seen mention here, but there are apparently two CRDs running around with his product.

I'm not saying one needs to go the way of the Suncoast and after market VB. At minimum though get either the Euro TC and consider the new pump. I chose to do the transmission removal myself to save money on labor so that I could put more money in the parts. I did have the a transmission shop put the pump in. It was worth paying them 2 hours labor to ensure that got in there right...didn't want to risk displacing any bearings.

The only mishap I had in removing the transmission was finding all of the bolts to remove. Between the dipstick and wiring harness, it was really hard to see there was actually a bolt there. I didn't actually see it until I removed the coolant reservoir. Putting this back together is going to be an adventure given that there isn't a lot of clearance to work with.

Good luck with your diagnosis and repairs. I got 126,000 miles out of mine before having to do this. Backing out of a parking place at work and not moving in any gear afterward sorta forced the timing on my "investment." My goal is to have everything back together by the end of April...have some other things to do to the Jeep as well and I've made up my mind take care of them all rather than revisiting again months from now.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Author:  msilbernagel [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
As a possibly relevant aside. I started experiencing the delays-to-engage also, and the occasional failure to disengage (acting like it was a manual w/o clutch). They've both stopped after resetting the TCM and re-learning followed by changing both filters and replacing the missing fluid with ATF+4.

Been running a few weeks now with no hiccups.

Approximately 146k miles on the transmission.

FYI - Mark
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
I agree that the delay is likely a result of the filters. Even after changing them, it showed up again after maybe 10k miles. It had only been about 40k miles since the last change. The only thing that has been in it is ATF+4 and I've owned the Jeep since mile 2. The disengagement was more a problem when the weather was cold. During the summer months it didn't show up as much. I had a quick relearn when I got the GDE tune about 30k miles ago...showed up in person for the flash. If people can get a reset and quick learn to solve the problem, all the better.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Author:  warp2diesel [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
LMWatBullRun wrote:
I am contemplating having a local shop rebuild my transmission. I have been told that the OD clutches are bad.

Q. Is it possible that the pump valve is bad, causing the dropout/ clunk problem?

Q. If in fact the clutches are gone, and I have the whole transmission rebuilt, if I use the sun coast TC and a new pump, should I also include a Transgo kit as well?


The new pump may or may not have a soft seat on the valve that goes bad.
The valve body that does the shifting has had the thin plate that holds in the valves bend and screw up on a few occasions, that is why Transgo came up with a heaver plate.
I would not replace the pump unless the gears and other stuff not in the Transgo kit is trashed.
The point is to beef up the pump where it is weak.
If you want the ultimate, have Suncoast do the whole thing and put in the clutches that a 400Hp Diesel engine can't tear up. The Suncoast high performance 68RFE gear pack will fit in your case, but some how I can't see any of our CRDs putting out Diesel 800Hp. Also Suncoast has some super valve bodies, if you realey want one. Win the $640,000,000 lottery, you might just do it.
Author:  papaindigo [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
Talked to Ron at Sun Coast yesterday for an install estimate and will reconnect with him Mon/Tues to set up an appointment next week or the week after. Nice that they are 2.5-3 hrs away.
Author:  ACRucrazy [ Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
papaindigo wrote:
Talked to Ron at Sun Coast yesterday for an install estimate and will reconnect with him Mon/Tues to set up an appointment next week or the week after. Nice that they are 2.5-3 hrs away.


Curious what was quoted for the TC as that is the one I am looking at getting.
Author:  ACRucrazy [ Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
papaindigo wrote:
Talked to Ron at Sun Coast yesterday for an install estimate and will reconnect with him Mon/Tues to set up an appointment next week or the week after. Nice that they are 2.5-3 hrs away.


Curious what was quoted for the TC as that is the one I am looking at getting.
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
warp2diesel wrote:
LMWatBullRun wrote:
I am contemplating having a local shop rebuild my transmission. I have been told that the OD clutches are bad.

Q. Is it possible that the pump valve is bad, causing the dropout/ clunk problem?

Q. If in fact the clutches are gone, and I have the whole transmission rebuilt, if I use the sun coast TC and a new pump, should I also include a Transgo kit as well?


The new pump may or may not have a soft seat on the valve that goes bad.
The valve body that does the shifting has had the thin plate that holds in the valves bend and screw up on a few occasions, that is why Transgo came up with a heaver plate.
I would not replace the pump unless the gears and other stuff not in the Transgo kit is trashed.
The point is to beef up the pump where it is weak.
If you want the ultimate, have Suncoast do the whole thing and put in the clutches that a 400Hp Diesel engine can't tear up. The Suncoast high performance 68RFE gear pack will fit in your case, but some how I can't see any of our CRDs putting out Diesel 800Hp. Also Suncoast has some super valve bodies, if you realey want one. Win the $640,000,000 lottery, you might just do it.


Suncoast sells TCs; do they sell clutches/rebuild kits for the CRD? Does anyone else sell an aftermarket rebuild kit?
Author:  Glend [ Fri May 18, 2012 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
You could try these guys:

http://www.transmissionsone.com/45rfe_p ... om_pat.htm

They sell heavy duty upgrade parts for the 545RFE. Just page down to find the 545RFE stuff: Clutch packs, etc
Author:  LMWatBullRun [ Fri May 18, 2012 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torque Converter Options
Cool! Thanks a bunch!
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