Leaking Injector #4 Loads of Black Smoke on Accelleration

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:12 pm

Hey guys, so i'm arm deep in the engine now. Just put on new Samco's, they're on good! With the plastic engine cover off, i've noticed some fuel spray and puddling around injector #4. On pedal down accelleration, thick, black smoke comes billows. On idle, it does not run smoothly. I've cycled through the injectors, and only unplugging number four makes a difference.
I'm wondering if I just remove, and replace with new o-rings and copper washer will this fix the problem? is there a possibility of the exterior of the injector cracking or failing? Does anyone have the part numbers for the o-ring and copper washer?
Thanks yall!

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:52 pm

Harlan,

BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL!! The fuel pressure you are dealing with for common rail diesel engines such as the CRDs is upwards of 26,000 PSI. It can literally kill you if diesel fuel is sprayed on your body at that pressure.

With that said, it is likely that the body of the injector is cracked. You will have to replace the injector itself. O-rings and crush washers won't help you one bit in this case.

Hoosier CRD

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:36 pm

galatron wrote:

Hey guys, so i'm arm deep in the engine now. Just put on new Samco's, they're on good! With the plastic engine cover off, i've noticed some fuel spray and puddling around injector #4. On pedal down accelleration, thick, black smoke comes billows. On idle, it does not run smoothly. I've cycled through the injectors, and only unplugging number four makes a difference.
I'm wondering if I just remove, and replace with new o-rings and copper washer will this fix the problem? is there a possibility of the exterior of the injector cracking or failing? Does anyone have the part numbers for the o-ring and copper washer?
Thanks yall!

You might try pulling the injector and sending it to a shop for a clean/inspect/rebuild - if you can find a place capable of doing so.

I was able to get all four off of mine (2005/165k mi) without a puller, using hand power and gentle pry (monster screwdriver) at the base of the fuel inlet (up against the body).

The o-rings are 05069135AB, and 05072722AA.

They are items 1 and 2 in this picture:

Mark

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:41 pm

Thank you for those part numbers, I ordered them today, should be here next week. I'm hoping they'll be easy to pull, given they've been soaking in fuel for the past few weeks.. I'm sure... given the high compression couldn't you just bump the engine with the injector pump fuse pulled? - how do you get the fuel rail off of the rear, #4, injector? it looks like I might have to mod a wrench to get back there.
I'll practice with number 3, it looks like the previous "engineer" might have worked on the front two and given up on the rear, or they may have worked on it, but were unable to reseat properly.
The engine sounds like it's got a bad knock, and blows lots of black smoke.
IT did have a new water pump, timing belt, and other stuff done to it... I know because they knarled up the fan bolt pretty good.
Do you think that dealer who did the timing belt may have done improperly slipped a few miles down the road? and timing is now off?

1. I can't trust any dealer so far. - I just can't trust them.
2. Previous owners weren't exactly clean people, got to steam clean the crap out of the carpet.
3. very few scratches and dings.
4. haven't gotten to drive it enough to check out the suspension, but I suspect that shocks, springs and bushings may be on order soon. - looking at rancho 9000's and OME springs. and rock a-arms if they're needed.

Just need to get this thing mechanically sound before I pile a bunch more money in it.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:56 pm

galatron wrote:

(1)...given the high compression couldn't you just bump the engine with the injector pump fuse pulled?

(2) how do you get the fuel rail off of the rear, #4, injector? it looks like I might have to mod a wrench to get back there.

(3) The engine sounds like it's got a bad knock, and blows lots of black smoke.

Re (1) - be careful, that much compression is likely to send it flying and while sturdy they do have delicate parts. I wouldn't...

Re (2) - I loosened the connector at the rail and pulled the injector with the tube attached. Worked for me.. :2cents:

Re (3) - The knock is probably the big burst of fuel... the newer common rail systems use multiple injection events to avoid the 'big bang' you heard in the older diesels (e.g. gen 1 and gen 2 cummins/dodge). If it's leaking, you're back to the big bang and black smoke is corroborating evidence of excessive fuel. Fix the injector and things should quiet down. Running with it that way is not advised as the excess fuel could wash down the cylinder walls and score the walls/pistons. Lot of good engines have failed catastrophically that way. (i.e. - get right on that...)

Be careful and thorough and she should be fine and zippy in no time.

Mark

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Thank you Mark, excellent advice!
My number 2 had a loose fitting at the injector, when I touched it with the wrench... wtf?!!!
I'm in anticipation of next week already, wondering if I should just pull the injector so I can "look" at it...
I did find a local injection specialist , http://theaustinfuelinjection.com , left them a voice mail to see what they can do to help. I'm not afraid of working on the jeep, that's why I got this second one... she's just got a couple of hiccups now. I agree, she'll be purrring away soon!

galatron · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:44 pm

So I got the injector pulled.it was too easy. Covered in goo and diesel. The oring had obviously failed and had a horizontal score. The copper washer had a path about a half cm wide where you could see gasses and fuel escaped. I'm now looking for suggestions on how to clean the female side of things. Have already blown the hole with highly compressed air. Pipe cleaners. Gunsmithing equipment. Shotgun swabs. All are welcome, all are welcome .....
I'm also wondering about number three and if I should mess with it.. or see if this was the only one.
The injector itself was in really good shape. I'm wondering if many the had replaced them recently.
anyway. This further reinforces my distrust for dealers escecially if the problem is resolved with 4 dollars in parts. Ugh.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:37 pm

I haven't cleaned the injector 'beds' in the head yet, but want to try and seal the hole before using compressed air.. trying to avoid junk falling onto the pistons and debris getting into the rings.

galatron · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:41 pm

Well I got the o-rings and washers. Had to do number thee also. It runs much better but still makes smoke on acceleration. Also doesn't seem to have the same swiftness as my old crd was. and still makes the rrrrrarr noise on hard pedal action.posting from my phone will add later just wanted to update.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:37 pm

galatron wrote:

Well I got the o-rings and washers. Had to do number thee also. It runs Buchanan better but still makes smoke on acceleration. Also doesn't seem to have the same swiftness as my old crd was. and still makes the rrrrrarr noise on hard pedal action.posting from my phone will add later just wanted to update.

Hmmm, you're fairly stock. When I first got mine it smoked a lot (seemingly) prior to the in-tank fuel pump. That took a lot off, as the air getting sucked in caused issues.

SEGR made a difference too - though now days the GDE tune seems like a sweet solution to fix the EGR/FCV induced smoking (EGR reduces oxygen).

For now, make sure your fuel filter is fresh/clean as that will reduce resistance and lessen air intake.

Mark

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:12 am

Hmm looks like I didn't get as good of a seal like I was expecting. I can see fuel coming up around number two also now that the head is drier. I am also wondering if it is possible for the rrrarr noise to be the result of a bad rocker? Perhaps? I did most of the work around the wire harness this weekend I will take off the wire harness to really get in there to ensure everything will be super spic n span. The engine does seem to be a lot smoother just lacks the power I expect. And still smokes.. and the rrrarrwr noise on a heavy foot.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:29 am

Where's the fuel coming from - any chance you have a split/cracked injector?

The 'rrrarr' may be the extra fuel creating a bigger bang...

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:34 am

Fuel is coming past the copper washer past the o-ring. And puddles around the injector. Putting new o-ring s and copper washers on 3 and 4 were obvious improvements ill order two more sets tomorrow for the others.injectors look to be in fine shape otherwise.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:50 am

Re: the rocker... have you had the intake cover off recently?

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:18 am

I haven't taken the valve cover off yet, was hoping to not to...
What's the procedure?

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:34 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0kstc ... ata_player

Here's a video I took of the engine running.

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:28 pm

In my opinion, at this point about the best thing that you can do is to have your injectors tested.

Take them to this shop:

http://theaustinfuelinjection.com/

They are an authorized Bosch Service Facility, this fact is a big deal.

By the way it sounds, you likely have a bad injector. Testing ALL of the injectors will tell you how healthy they are. The shop should be able to give you a copy of the readout of cc's of flow, return, etc. Then you can make an educated decision as to how to proceed. My guess is that you will want to replace all of them.
Bosch P/N 0-445-110-217. Hope this helps.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:44 am

I don't know, the injectors seem to be in pretty good shape. Took everything apart last night made sure everything was extra super clean. It sounds much better this morning.
Brainstorming last night I came up with the following ideas:
1. oil's been diluted due to overfueling, change oil.
2. intake rocker arm has failed, disallowing fresh air into cylinder causing black smoke
3. bad injector
4. timing belt slipped causing failed rockers

so I just looked up my service history on the owner.jeep website it was there last week, now it's gone.

bluecurd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:58 pm

my problem was just the return line "T" on top of the injector, along with return lines. put a tiny amount of pressure where the hoses meet the t's one at a time and see if it sprays diesel out, (i'm a noob, and dont know too much about this motor..found this by accident when looking under hood one day to inspect leak)

David

galatron · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:56 am

Well, I did an oil change to see if we were just running on diluted oil and the lifter was not getting the proper viscosity. That was not it. She's still smoking and making a racket on acceleration. I am almost convinced that we have a botched timing belt job here and a resulting impacted rocker. Now, how do I go about proving this theory up and having the dealer who did the work make the repairs?

Leaking Injector #4 Loads of Black Smoke on Accelleration

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