Crown water pump failure

omaharacer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:08 pm

I purchased my 2005 CRD w/ 137k miles in January. The previous owner said he hadn't changed out the water pump or timing belt so that was a ASAP project. I had purchased everything immediately (water pump from AutoPartsWarehouse.com, CROWN new version for $110). Everything went surprisingly well.
Immediately I noticed a coolant leak that was serious. That ended up being two spring clamps that go to the heater core that didn't have enough tension and causing leaks from the viscous heater. This was solved w/ new screw clamps but now I had coolant everywhere. So I waited a few days for everything to dry up.
Unfortunately this didn't solve all the leaks, but significantly slowed them down. After a couple weeks I finally got the Jeep on my parent's lift and tracked the leak down to what looked like the bottom of the water pump - possibly around the freeze plug. It wasn't leaking that much anymore, a few drops hitting the ground after a 15 minute drive, so I thought I had some time to replace it.
WRONG!
I have driven about 1,500 miles on it total in the two months it has been back together and the water pump has completely failed, shaft bent into the rear timing cover shaving off aluminum until it bent enough to slip a tooth and fubar the engine. Right now I'm taking a break from tearing it apart. I've re-ordered the rental for tools from GDE, but I don't know how many rockers are destroyed yet.
It may just be a bad pump, but I would strongly recommend you DO NOT BUY Crown water pumps.

Now I get to argue w/ APW on refunding my money. No way am I putting all this work into this and having another Crown pump fail.
Video of the shaft play. Still need to pull everything apart...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFf6IaVGWk

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:44 pm

If you have a Family Lawyer, good time to talk to him/her.
If the seller buys crap from China and sells it at a profit, they should be liable for more than replacing the water pump when it trashes your engine.
A letter from your Family Lawyer might at least get them to cover the cost of the other parts like rockers that were damaged when the water pump flew apart. Only idiot companies like Gateway Computer will spend more on Court/Lawyer costs than making a Fair settlement.
I hope you did not get your head too hot or you will be looking at more like a head gasket or even a head down the road. Your temp gauge only tells you the temperature of the coolant, not if you have air pockets due to loss of coolant.

Good luck

jeepdan · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:44 pm

OK, that is two Crown water pump failures. The last one reported, failed after only 4,000 miles. :grim:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:03 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

If you have a Family Lawyer, good time to talk to him/her.
If the seller buys crap from China and sells it at a profit, they should be liable for more than replacing the water pump when it trashes your engine.
A letter from your Family Lawyer might at least get them to cover the cost of the other parts like rockers that were damaged when the water pump flew apart. Only idiot companies like Gateway Computer will spend more on Court/Lawyer costs than making a Fair settlement.
I hope you did not get your head too hot or you will be looking at more like a head gasket or even a head down the road. Your temp gauge only tells you the temperature of the coolant, not if you have air pockets due to loss of coolant.

Good luck

Will never happen as there warranty is black and white about not covering other damage,labor costs,or your personal downtime cost.They'll refund you the $$ or give you another pump but that's it.You'll be wasting money trying to sue them.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:14 pm

jeepdan wrote:

OK, that is two Crown water pump failures. The last one reported, failed after only 4,000 miles. :grim:

Yup, second reported crown water pump failure. I will not be recommending them for the timing belt service.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:38 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

If you have a Family Lawyer, good time to talk to him/her.
If the seller buys crap from China and sells it at a profit, they should be liable for more than replacing the water pump when it trashes your engine.
A letter from your Family Lawyer might at least get them to cover the cost of the other parts like rockers that were damaged when the water pump flew apart. Only idiot companies like Gateway Computer will spend more on Court/Lawyer costs than making a Fair settlement.
I hope you did not get your head too hot or you will be looking at more like a head gasket or even a head down the road. Your temp gauge only tells you the temperature of the coolant, not if you have air pockets due to loss of coolant.

Good luck

Will never happen as there warranty is black and white about not covering other damage,labor costs,or your personal downtime cost.They'll refund you the $$ or give you another pump but that's it.You'll be wasting money trying to sue them.

So you know for a fact that Crown is as Stupid as Gateway Computer?
Have you ever used a Lawyer to go after Crown?

Warranty Policy is not law, just a weak contract that can be opened up for negotiation, class action law suits, and litigation.

As far as Crown goes for me, they have shot them selves in the foot with a belt fed 50BMG on full auto.
IDI Parts Crown CRD Water Pumps are JUNK, HINT!! HINT!!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:48 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

So you know for a fact that Crown is as Stupid as Gateway Computer?
Have you ever used a Lawyer to go after Crown?

Warranty Policy is not law, just a weak contract that can be opened up for negotiation, class action law suits, and litigation.

As far as Crown goes for me, they have shot them selves in the foot with a belt fed 50BMG on full auto.
IDI Parts Crown CRD Water Pumps are JUNK, HINT!! HINT!!

Why would I? Every crown part I've used/installed has been great.Just sueing for something small like this is why this country is so screwed up.It's called mass production and you will get bad parts from high quality places,just less likely then the cheap stuff known for early failure but it still happens.

You'll spend more $$$ trying to fight them then what a new engine would cost and could take years.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:34 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

So you know for a fact that Crown is as Stupid as Gateway Computer?
Have you ever used a Lawyer to go after Crown?

Warranty Policy is not law, just a weak contract that can be opened up for negotiation, class action law suits, and litigation.

As far as Crown goes for me, they have shot them selves in the foot with a belt fed 50BMG on full auto.
IDI Parts Crown CRD Water Pumps are JUNK, HINT!! HINT!!

Why would I? Every crown part I've used/installed has been great.Just sueing for something small like this is why this country is so screwed up.It's called mass production and you will get bad parts from high quality places,just less likely then the cheap stuff known for early failure but it still happens.

You'll spend more $$$ trying to fight them then what a new engine would cost and could take years.

Poor QA is due to cutting corners, poor assembly and/or using poor designs, not mass production.
Bad parts tend to run in batches, not just one bad part out of many good ones.
If Crown gets junk from Chinese plants, that is their fault, they made the choice to buy
risky merchandise.
The number one suspect part of the Crown CRD water pumps that prematurely failed is a crappy bearing assembly. Most likely the bearing assembly was Chinese produced with either improper hardening of the races or ball bearings, poor surface finish, or not set to the proper pre-load. Had it been the seal, the coolant would have leaked out and the bearing stayed intact.
If omaharacer does not want his Lawyer to write a letter to Crown, he can contact his State Attorney General's Office and file a complaint. By the time they get done, Crown would be better off making a settlement than fighting the State Attorney General. Of course omaharacer would be investing an envelope, paper and an envelope, might cost $1.50 by the time he is done, but that is his dime.
Another option is to start a website called Crownwaterpumpssuck.com and post the pics, I am sure Crown would settle to have the web site taken down.
Of course, there are those who believe and trust every thing they read in a warranty policy.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:42 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

So you know for a fact that Crown is as Stupid as Gateway Computer?
Have you ever used a Lawyer to go after Crown?

Warranty Policy is not law, just a weak contract that can be opened up for negotiation, class action law suits, and litigation.

As far as Crown goes for me, they have shot them selves in the foot with a belt fed 50BMG on full auto.
IDI Parts Crown CRD Water Pumps are JUNK, HINT!! HINT!!

Why would I? Every crown part I've used/installed has been great.Just sueing for something small like this is why this country is so screwed up.It's called mass production and you will get bad parts from high quality places,just less likely then the cheap stuff known for early failure but it still happens.

You'll spend more $$$ trying to fight them then what a new engine would cost and could take years.

Poor QA is due to cutting corners, poor assembly and/or using poor designs, not mass production.
Bad parts tend to run in batches, not just one bad part out of many good ones.
If Crown gets junk from Chinese plants, that is their fault, they made the choice to buy
risky merchandise.
The number one suspect part of the Crown CRD water pumps that prematurely failed is a crappy bearing assembly. Most likely the bearing assembly was Chinese produced with either improper hardening of the races or ball bearings, poor surface finish, or not set to the proper pre-load. Had it been the seal, the coolant would have leaked out and the bearing stayed intact.
If omaharacer does not want his Lawyer to write a letter to Crown, he can contact his State Attorney General's Office and file a complaint. By the time they get done, Crown would be better off making a settlement than fighting the State Attorney General. Of course omaharacer would be investing an envelope, paper and an envelope, might cost $1.50 by the time he is done, but that is his dime.
Another option is to start a website called Crownwaterpumpssuck.com and post the pics, I am sure Crown would settle to have the web site taken down.
Of course, there are those who believe and trust every thing they read in a warranty policy.

See all just a bunch of whinny kids crying "gimmie,gimmie for free".

The states AG will most likely laugh or it will never make his eyes and deleted/trashed.The AG is for criminal offensives,happen to buy a bad part that does not go them.Even if they do look at it they will close the case after the supplier refunds the purchase price or replaces the part.They will not go after them for other stuff.

woodtick · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:06 pm

The states AG will most likely laugh or it will never make his eyes and deleted/trashed.The AG is for criminal offensives,[/quote]

Heard of the tobacco settlements? State AG's were involved as well as class action ambulance chasers. So there may be hope. Granted it's not likely. In Wisconsin we have the Dept. of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection as a first stop.

Being that it probably needs to be fixed soon, any action will be retroactive. Just document the heck out of everything, especially photos.

Good luck, my :2cents:

flman · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:36 am

What kind of pumps is ID selling with the timing belt kit?

tonycrd · **Posted:** Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:03 pm

I didn't have any luck with Crown rear balljoint/ silent blocks rear arms/ clevis to LCA either. Trashed within a week...

My clutch release bearing is fine though.. :roll:

But wow...the video! That's effed up! I'll get the VM pump no doubt about it.

omaharacer · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Wobbly seems to be out of rocker arms - does anyone know a good source for a reasonable price? - aka, not the stealerships.

Just got the GDE tools in, but still waiting on new water pump. I have to head off to work, so disassembly will be tomorrow and I can find out how many rockers were destroyed.

Randy B · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:37 pm

On another post about rocker's someone wrote to try rockauto.com Hope this helps

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:22 pm

Randy B wrote:

On another post about rocker's someone wrote to try rockauto.com Hope this helps

rock auto DOES NOT have rocker arms.

Jeep does have them, you can get them via a shop discount for about $40-47 each. Pricey I know, but its your best bet.

You may try contacting VM directly for parts, here is a contact that may be helpful.

VM Motori North America:
Location: 1187, Centre Drive Auburn Hills Detroit, Michigan 48326
Contact: Diana Dupuie eMail:ddupuie@vm-na.com Phone: +1 248-977-5901

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:27 pm

flman wrote:

What kind of pumps is ID selling with the timing belt kit?

Looks like they sell Crown that are made in China.
Lots of the bargain TB kits being sold for 2.5L/2.8L in Europe use the Crown (Made in China) WPs also. If you look at some of the BMW forums, there was a rash of Made in China Crown water pumps that shot craps on their cars too. Since they had timing chains, when the water pump trashed out, they did not trash the engine. When you put the name Crown with Made In China, you have Royal Crap for a water pump.
I suspect when enough crap flies and the ambulance chasers or the lower string Gooberment regulation writing lawyers who can pass the Bar Exam on the fifth try (most do it in three or less) start going for, or threaten to start (most likely) class action law suits, the junk will be unloaded on eBay or on the internet. So, if you see an unboxed or reboxed CRD water pump for cheap, watch out, it might be Made in China junk.

Regarding omaharacer's case. If he lives in Nebraska, he might have a much better case in getting his money. Nebraska does not put up with crap and to protect farmers, Nebraska requires a test for all farm tractors sold in the state. If the tractor does not perform, it can't be sold. Most manufacturers use the Nebraska test results for what they sell.
I just crossed over 89.5K so I will be looking for a kit that does not include a Made in China crown WP :!:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:30 pm

Here is a used one in the UK....its just one and its used, and by the time you have it shipped to the US its not really any cheaper than getting it with a shop discount from the dealer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VM-CRD-16-VAL ... 4602d1481c

This may be a better deal since it appears to be new and is a bit cheaper, but this does not come with the rockers, when I had to replace all 16 rockers I had 1 bad lifter. The good news is that if you have some bad lifters people like myself have good used lifters to sell you if you get the rockers only. The New jeep rockers come with new lifters.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chrysler-Voya ... 3f14e0816d

From the same seller here is a set of 16 for about $230USD .........and its a pretty fair price for 16 since you will spend more for 8 from jeep in the US than that.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/x16-Chrysler- ... 3f1468de01

So there are no other US options, but maybe some international options.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:34 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

I will be looking for a kit that does not include a Made in China crown WP :!:

I just did lost member UFO's CRD timing belt and water pump a few weeks ago. We ordered the water pump via my account with Jeep, $200 for the pump, you can get similar pricing online through the various trademotion sellers.

$200 for a new OEM pump or $130 for a crown pump. I say it worth the extra $70 for OEM.

Plus keep in mind that on top of TWO Crown pump failures there was also one that was manufactured incorrectly that wouldn't even bolt up to the block.

Plus if you get the OEM pump you can leave the rear half in place and boltup the new front half with confidence, I'm not sure what would happen if you bolted a crown front half to an OEM rear half. The time you save by just replacing the front half with OEM will be worth the $70 alone.

At least for me on a customers car I won't touch a crown pump.

Kursk · **Joined:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:53 pm **Posts:** 8

Not proud to admit it but I was the other crown water pump failure victim (purchased from carpartswholesale). See my post regarding Metal Filings in the radiator fluid.

I got my rockers from (and new water pump) from moparonlineparts.com. Part number is 5066780AB (comes up as Arm-Inlet and Exhaust valve) $46.35 each for a total of $751.60 for the set of 16. Note:moparonlineparts.com does not use the 0 preceding the first whole number in the part number (so 05066780AB is as I listed above). I replaced the rockers with mopar. Although a little more expensive, they have the properties I know and love (ie. fracture and cause no other damage). Not sure if the other non-mopar rockers have these properties and other qualities built in. I replaced all 16. Didn't want to take the chance that one of the apparently "okay" ones wasn't...

I'm currently in the process of replacing the a/c compressor bearing (once I get the fn o-ring off). The metal filings from the broken crown water pump go sucked into the electromagnet on the compress and is destroying the bearing. When the a/c compressor kicks in, metal filings are being thrown out of the bearing area. Once I get it disassembled and cleaned up I think I'll be done with this whole timing belt replacement nightmare.

omaharacer · **Posted:** Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:29 am

Wow.... $800 shipped for all 16 rockers/lifters from moparpartsonline.com. I already bought my water pump/gaskets from them, couldn't find the rockers otherwise I probably would have bought them all at the same time.
I found this guy on eBay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/300696961145?_t ... 700wt_1396
About $490 shipped for all 16 rockers/lifters, claims they are new VM parts. I may take the random guy on eBay and save the $310.

Crown water pump failure

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